Indian Geo chain

Bruce Bump

Bruce Bump

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Messages
9,910
As some may remember our own IG sent me his genuine ancient Indian Motorcycle primary chain after I begged for about 5 years for it.
Here are some pictures of it in progress.

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:eek: This is going to be cool!! :thumbup:

What did you line the can with? Pics look like duct tape. :confused:
 
more action to follow. (Im still learning image posting)

I owe one slice off the finished billet for IG and the rest will more than likely go on a couple boot knives.

I ordered some 1095 powder from Kelly Couples and plan to use it for the double edge. If it all works out I can slice 3 or 4 blades out of it.

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To me its self explainatory so far so if you have questions please ask.

Basically I cleaned the chain, made a custom sized box for it and lined it with stainless foil and folded the chain into 4 rows and welded the boxes seams except for one end. I filled the box with pure nickel powder and vibrated it down with an air chisel (without the chisel bit) and welded the box closed.
Next I heated the box to 2300f and forge welded it in the squaring dies. I welded it 3 or 4 times and switched to the flatting dies. It appears to be out of shape because the box could not weld to the contents due to the stainless foil inside to prevent that.
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I pressed it from end to end a few times too so I could maintain the chain pattern otherwise it will stretch out and not look like a chain anymore.
 
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I chop sawed off both ends and ground off one edge and the canister opened up like one of those cheap sardine cans. And to think I used to grind the entire can off in the old days.
 
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I could resist showing how good I look in this apron

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Here I have reforged the billet after taking it out of the can. I also resquared it and ground off the scale, and annealed it at 1325f for 30 minites.
Here is the resulting core of our new boot knives.
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I hope the extremely large images are OK. I will try to tone them down on the next batch.
 
bruce...this is going to be a fascinating thread....can't wait to see it all done....quick question....i would assume the foil prevents the chain from being welded to the box?.....also if the chain is in the box and you are heating it to weld it......you don't have any type of flux?......does the powder you use just melt and fill all the voids.....could you explain this a little for those who don't know how it works......thanks alot....ryan
 
I've been to cheap to buy foil so I did'nt recognize what it was! :o:foot: I just use a satinite wash. But, if there's TWO uses for the foil...........

Good pics of your press dies,too. Answered a few design questions I had! :cool::thumbup: How do you like that style press as compared to a H press? Saves a lot of space & I think easier to build. Any complaints??

Cool thread so far!:thumbup::thumbup:
 
ryan9977 said:
bruce...this is going to be a fascinating thread....can't wait to see it all done....quick question....i would assume the foil prevents the chain from being welded to the box?.....also if the chain is in the box and you are heating it to weld it......you don't have any type of flux?......does the powder you use just melt and fill all the voids.....could you explain this a little for those who don't know how it works......thanks alot....ryan
Click to expand...

Yeah the stainless foil will prevent the contents from forge welding to the box and will allow the box to just peel off when it not needed anymore. The box is used to keep oxygen out of the process. Oxygen is the killer of forge welding. No flux is needed if the box is airtight. I sometimes put a piece of cardboard inside the box to burn off any trapped oxygen that could cause problems but in this case the powder is so dense and vibrated down so tight it wasnt needed. I also pressed the box closed to help pack the contents very tight and squeeze out air. The box is comletely welded closed with a wire feed welder. This is also called the "dry method" of forge welding. The powder is hot enough to solidify but I dont think it is actually melted at only 2300f. Good questions.
 
Deweyknives said:
I've been to cheap to buy foil so I did'nt recognize what it was! :o:foot: I just use a satinite wash. But, if there's TWO uses for the foil...........

Good pics of your press dies,too. Answered a few design questions I had! :cool::thumbup: How do you like that style press as compared to a H press? Saves a lot of space & I think easier to build. Any complaints??

Cool thread so far!:thumbup::thumbup:
Click to expand...

I like the press design but I have to be careful to stay in the middle of the dies or things can get bent. Notice the arc on the long flat dies? I did that by sqeezing out on the ends. It also broke the welds on the lower die holder. Live and learn. I'm careful now but I dont think the "H" style has that problem. I can get around the entire press which you cant with the "H" style so I guess there are advantages and disadvantages to each. If I had it to do again I would go this route and make the die holders wider.
 
bruce.....thanks for the answers....when u say foil...are you talking about regular foil like you buy in a grocery store.....or do you use something else?......when you compact the powder....how do you do that part?....you said something about an air chisel?......also you said you pressed the box to compact it.....wouldn't you break it in your press if it's welded....i'm assuming i'm missing a crucial point there........thanks for all the pics and explanations....i'm sure it makes collectors and makers alike appreiate all the work that goes into a project like this.....ryan
 
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I have 1095 powder on the way to make the edge. I need to make another box to put the core into and fill the outer edge with it. I scalloped the outer part of the core so the edge will fill in and make a more secure bond and hopefully look cool too.

Stay tuned for more. Thanks for looking.
 
ryan9977 said:
bruce.....thanks for the answers....when u say foil...are you talking about regular foil like you buy in a grocery store.....or do you use something else?......when you compact the powder....how do you do that part?....you said something about an air chisel?......also you said you pressed the box to compact it.....wouldn't you break it in your press if it's welded....i'm assuming i'm missing a crucial point there........thanks for all the pics and explanations....i'm sure it makes collectors and makers alike appreiate all the work that goes into a project like this.....ryan
Click to expand...

No, it is stainless foil, the same stuff they wrap air hardening steel in to protect the steel from oxy when soaking at high temps.
I use a cheap air chisel without the bit to vibrate the sides of the box so the powder will pack into all the voids around the chain. I used my press to close the lid on the box but not to squeeze too tightly as to split a seam. The box is simply mild steel and very forgiving when pressing it cold. Keep em coming
 
well i'll keep em coming then:thumbup:....isn't too often i have this many good questions.....i assume you're cutting slots in the billet for a specific pattern?.....also is the chain suitable for a knife edge or is it going to be welded onto a core steel for the cutting edge.....that's all i got for now...i'm sure i'll have something else on the next step....thanks for all the answers!.....hope u don't mind -i posted a link to this thread in the customs forum....they like works in progress threads over there:thumbup:......ryan
 
tag. Thank you so much for showing non knife makers an inside peek with your pics.
 
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