INfi = inFI = iNFi

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One of the advantages having a proprietary steel like "INFI" is that you can change it's composition and features without having to re-name it. When Busse Combat says: "that's INFI" - then it is INFI.

So my question is: Has INFI changed over the years? Did you recognize any change in performance concerning edge retention, toughness, stain resistance or anything else? Are there possibly even differnt "INFIs" being used for different blade sizes or grinds?

We are comparing INFI with INFI here. Anything else would be unfair ;) :cool: :D

Cheers,
A-S
 
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One of the advantages having a proprietary steel like "INFI" is that you can change it's composition and features without having to re-name it. When Busse Combat says: "that's INFI" - then it is INFI.

So my question is: Has INFI changed over the years? Did you recognize any change in performance concerning edge retention, toughness, stainlessless, or anything else? Are there possibly even differnt "INFIs" being used for different blade sizes or grinds?

We are comparing INFI with INFI here. Anything else would be unfair ;) :cool: :D

Cheers,
A-S

Pretty sure they haven't made any significant alloy changes, if they did there's a pretty good chance we'd see "Infi-MkII 30% tougher!!! " and lots of hush hush teasing from Jerry B. They have done some changes to the HT protocol over the years. The newer knives tend to run 1 or 2 RC points softer than the early infi blades, aside from stuff like the Boney Active Duty that they bumped up a few points for better cutting performance.
 
We'd see "New INFI. Preferred better in chop-tests all over the country." Then old-school hogs would cry foul, that this new INFI was somehow inferior, even if they did a blind "Pepsi Challenge" chop test and it won, and Busse would have to spend millions of dollars on an ad campaign to bring back "Classic INFI."

Interesting, what would never be talked about was the fact that neither composition would win the Royal Crown. ;)
 
I would like to see the old tests done with the new knives, every five years or so.

I would expect edge retention to follow the grind, the Aysm made a big difference.

Getting from INFI to Modified INFI and Back is a great Story, but it is Jerry's Story to tell, encourage Him.
 
I think you're wondering if Busse has followed the Cold Steel model where "Carbon V" was reportedly several steels over the years. The difference between the two companies (yes, I know I said "the" even though there are several differences, but I'm just referring to the pertinent one) is that Busse is an actual knife manufacturer, whereas Cold Steel is/was a designer who farms out production. That isn't meant as a negative towards Cold Steel, by the way---ESEE knives farm out their production and are absolutely top-notch blades.

Besides, the rather unique thing about INFI is its combination of toughness with corrosion resistance, and I have one or two uncoated safe queens that--except for occasional fondling--have lived for years in their leather sheaths (in Alabama) and never shown a sign of spotting or darkening, and yet their user brethren go out and behave like L6 with a set of steel testicles (which is saying something as L6 has brass ones to begin with). In the cutlery world, that's unique, and massive changes to composition would not deliver the same result.

I think the answer is a qualified "no" except for, as others have mentioned, possibly a change in the temper for the big blades versus the small. Seems like I heard about that somewhere else (other than this thread) but damned if I can remember where...

I do have to take issue with one other thing, and I mean NO disrespect to the asymmetrical grind as I have a few of those old guys and love them. There is no, repeat no, repeat-again-for-the-hell-of-it NO difference in edge strength, edge retention or anything else that derives from the shape of the grind. It's all about the quantifiable geometry itself. Whether (as was the case with the old Busses) the grind has no symmetry because it was done on purpose or because the person who sharpened it doesn't know how to maintain a bevel, it does not yield to it any magical properties. Thick edges last longer than thin edges, in ALL applications. They wear longer, they're harder to deform, they take more abuse, etc. because there is more steel there. On the other hand, they don't cut as well as a thinner geometry. The older Busses were sharpened with thicker edge bevels than what is coming out of the factory now, on average at least. Mostly, I think this was in response to customer demand (lots of sad tales about apples being crushed during attempts at slicing), and let's face it---to the uninitiated (read: almost everybody who wasn't a Bladeforums/Knifeforums member) it did look kind of a like a mistake to have one side ground four times as high as the other. Sarcastic though that may come off, I'm genuinely not knocking it. The 'raise a burr and strop it off' thing did absolutely work with the asym, because it's easier to raise a burr with a flat bevel and easier to strop on a convex. But I've heard the claim before about asym edges lasting longer and it just simply isn't true. Thick edges last longer---and if I were to grind a traditional V-bevel even thicker than the asym, it'd have even higher edge durability, with a corresponding loss in cutting performance.
 
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I think you're wondering if Busse has followed the Cold Steel model where "Carbon V" was reportedly several steels over the years.

Thanks for your comprehensive reply! Many valid remarks from your side :thumbup: But concerning you first sentence... nope!
We are comparing INFI with INFI here. Anything else would be unfair
:D

I just keep wondering if the steel composition and ht that had been developed many years ago (how many exactly??? about 15??? :confused:) was so close to perfect, that it couldn't be improved. Or the other way 'round: if the competition was so far away performance wise that there was no need to react.

Both would be good reasons to give steel research and development a rest. But at the lastest when our space ships return from Mars with tons of kryptonite in their trunks we'll see something new. And I would bet my left testicle [anat.] that Busse Combat is already getting prepared. Just a matter of time...
 
Some people say something has changed after 2004, others say something has changed after 2006.

Maybe the steel, maybe the Heat treating, maybe both.

Maybe nothing has really changed but just modified, for example, busse sells (just for example) 500 knives per month. Let' say that for the years before 2006 every month 10 knives were broken (due to abuse) and of course busse warranty covered it. It means that 2% of knives were not as though as they had to be for some people.

So you may use the same steel and slightly modify the heat-treat to improve ductility, resiliance and elasticity, but you may lose a bit in edge holding doing so.

After this modify in HT, maybe only 5 knives per month come back broken. So it' s an improvement.

Who can say that this modify is negative? The people who already used their knives reasonabily and not abusing. For them the improved resiliance or improved ductility and elastcity means nothing. They will only see that the blade has a bit less of edge retention.

Back in the years INFI arrived to 61hrc, now is around 59... Blades were alteady strong, now are stronger. Were easy to sharpen, now are easier. Had a better edge retention. Now it's decreased.

I think that as any other company they follow the public demand. If people keep on askinf for knives who can resist abuse, they'll keep on doing HT to improve resilience.

If people will start to ask for Knives with outstanding edge holding, they may switch back to older HT...(or switch back to older steel composition)

Just my 2cents.
 
Some people say something has changed after 2004, others say something has changed after 2006.

Maybe the steel, maybe the Heat treating, maybe both.


hmmm,I've been around a little longer than you, but never heard this. :confused:

But, back to the OP's question... yes, it strikes me as entirely possible that INFI has changed over the years. INFI means whatever Jerry wants it to mean, and he may well have tinkered with the composition. We just don't know, and how could we? Short of taking knives to near failure on a regular basis, how could one discern a difference?
 
Rather than argue edge geometry just take two Busse knives, each made of INFI and do the test for your self.

I did.

In two tests, push cutting clean rope and chopping new clean 2X6s the Asym holds the edge better than the same model SHBM with a factory symetrical edge.

a lot better, more than 20% better, just look at the factory tests with early INFI symetrical knives and the later tests done with M-INFI and then INFI with the then new and amazing Asymetrical edge that holds an edge so long but looks so wrong and is so easy to sharpen too, just looks like you been smoken glue.
 
i have, many times over. The laws of physics don't cease to exist, even for the wizards in Wauseon.
 
well, first of all INFI's composition has been discussed many times in the past and the microconstituents have been listed many times over. Over the years several independent's have had it tested and found the composition to remain constant except for the very early days and what Andre mentioned to be INFI vs M-INFI, which one came first:D the chicken or the egg.

Anyway, the big secret isn't just the composition but the HT process. The combination of the two makes the steel. As for the cutting edge, the assymetrical edge is a wonder, as ugly as it is. The reason why Busse went to a std edge, was because of idiots like me who spent months reprofiling the edge to a normal look, because it hurt my eyes to look at one wide side and one minimal edge side and people asking me why the edge was f'd up. But my early SHBM's would go forever and almost seemed to resharpen themselves, as I had to do very little touch up to get them to keep on going.
 
Once and for all, INFI contains everything but the squeal, print this out, bookmark this link.:thumbup:




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Infi is Infi. There may exist some slight variations in the heat-treatment process. I have noticed that my NMSFNO will outperform any other INFI I have. The convex edge helps, but it holds an edge longer than my other INFI with the exact same edge profile. In short, it has split cords of very, very hard dry mesquite wood forever and still shaves arm hair. It is really amazing. Now, all of my INFI performs very very well, but that nmsfno is just flat-out nuts!

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