Info and opinions on WOOX Solo

[Baumgarden]

I'm looking for information and opinions on the WOOX Solo. It's a 19" slip fit under 2# with sharpened beard and a mattock.
Specifically, the heat treatment, will this thing hold an edge?
What is the RC and does that include the sharpened beard and mattock portions?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I designed it for WOOX to meet a brief for a combination "tactical/outdoor recreation" hybrid tool. RC should be 58 if they followed my specification. The head is designed to be able to be held and used like a knife when off the handle, and the eye should be the same shape and taper as Cold Steel hawks so you can use their handles in a pinch if you have a hard time getting your hands on the fancier WOOX handle, or can outfit Cold Steel hawks with the WOOX handle to spiff them up a bit. I cannot verify all details on it because I only supplied them with the specs and they made some decisions without my input, but I can at least speak to how it was intended or originally specified before it went into pre-production and production.

 

[Baumgarden]

I only supplied them with the specs and they made some decisions without my input, but I can at least speak to how it was intended or originally specified before it went into pre-production and production.

very good,
So you specified 1045 @58, Prandi again or Rinaldi? What changed between your design and production? Have you had a chance to field test these?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Prandi again. Certain elements such as the cheek shape and the shape of the pick side were altered due to what were described to me as "forging constraints" without having been given the opportunity to troubleshoot the production methods to get closer to the original vision. The pick was originally intended to be brought to a full point and the cheeks given more of a bi-axial taper. I'm okay with the design as it turned out but as it was a one-time design commission rather than royalty-based I'm less bothered by the design concessions that were made without the opportunity for feedback and alteration. I have yet to field test one but do have on on its way to me.

 

[Baumgarden]

Prandi again. Certain elements such as the cheek shape and the shape of the pick side were altered due to what were described to me as "forging constraints" without having been given the opportunity to troubleshoot the production methods to get closer to the original vision. The pick was originally intended to be brought to a full point and the cheeks given more of a bi-axial taper. I'm okay with the design as it turned out but as it was a one-time design commission rather than royalty-based I'm less bothered by the design concessions that were made without the opportunity for feedback and alteration. I have yet to field test one but do have on on its way to me.

I now understand your outlook better, disassociated design process. Having had my designs changed by outside production forces, it seems he who touches it last has the last say. Adjust the process rather than the design is the engineer's way but adjust the design and not our process says the man with the machine. The man with the machine wins and we have a compromised product (possibly) the man with the plan wins and we have an expensive item (again possibly).

The pick is what caught my attention. I was looking for a new axe that I could tote around in my outings and at the same time wanted to add a short earth working tool to break ground and pick out around rock. Being an owner of a Forte, I was glad to see that WOOX had a new axe that fit what I was looking for that was on sale.

Regarding the head, along the top of the bit, toe to eye has a perpendicular to cheek ridge. Is this your design? Intersted in why? The reinforcement along the pick is a nice addition and the chisel tip on the end isn't bad for my application. If the pick was for "tactical" application it might well be turned 90 deg. to be in plane with the cheek and given the pointed end for strictly penetration. This would also make it a backhand spike in the knife application. As it stands the pick end is useful as a "gouging" tool or an ice pick with it's curve and chisel tip while it's held in the knife position (bit off, in hand). Also, if using the bit as a knife, the question of whether or not the sharpened beard is hardened becomes of greater importance.
Are pick axe tips normally hardened?
The transition from the cheek to the eye takes quite an abrupt angle change, starting 3.25 from the cutting edge, will this aid in splitting or is this to deep? (not that I imagine this to the axe's purpose)

Regarding the handle, yep, it's very nice, as I'd expect from WOOX. Unnoticeable in the pictures is what feels like a three hold curvature to the handle; high, mid and low. Initially I thought it to be paint, there is a gnerling like texture that makes the grip the best I've held on a wooden handle. It appears to be etched into the wood. When holding it in the low position the texture is appreciated. Durability unknown.
The 19 handle measures 17.5 to tip of the toe as it sits. There is an abrupt change in thickness of the handle where the bit is intended to sit,
The handle feels odd when you engage in picking as the shape of the handle, with it's CS hawk compatible shape, has a tight radius that slips past the flexor pollicis brevis of the hand unless your grip is adjusted to roll the handle inward toward the palm.

Overall, great feel to the Solo, CG seems to be directly behind the beard with a quick on the finger balance test. This makes it feel great when choked up and very forward feeling when held low. This feels hefty when held low, more than the numbers would dictate, reminiscent of the Forte-X.
It would be nice if this shared the same handle as the Forte so one could just swap out the head for the intended application. This seems like a missed opportunity at commonality.

I have no idea how it performs in the field yet. I look forward to your correspondence.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I now understand your outlook better, disassociated design process. Having had my designs changed by outside production forces, it seems he who touches it last has the last say. Adjust the process rather than the design is the engineer's way but adjust the design and not our process says the man with the machine. The man with the machine wins and we have a compromised product (possibly) the man with the plan wins and we have an expensive item (again possibly).

The pick is what caught my attention. I was looking for a new axe that I could tote around in my outings and at the same time wanted to add a short earth working tool to break ground and pick out around rock. Being an owner of a Forte, I was glad to see that WOOX had a new axe that fit what I was looking for that was on sale.

Regarding the head, along the top of the bit, toe to eye has a perpendicular to cheek ridge. Is this your design? Intersted in why? The reinforcement along the pick is a nice addition and the chisel tip on the end isn't bad for my application. If the pick was for "tactical" application it might well be turned 90 deg. to be in plane with the cheek and given the pointed end for strictly penetration. This would also make it a backhand spike in the knife application. As it stands the pick end is useful as a "gouging" tool or an ice pick with it's curve and chisel tip while it's held in the knife position (bit off, in hand). Also, if using the bit as a knife, the question of whether or not the sharpened beard is hardened becomes of greater importance.
Are pick axe tips normally hardened?
The transition from the cheek to the eye takes quite an abrupt angle change, starting 3.25 from the cutting edge, will this aid in splitting or is this to deep? (not that I imagine this to the axe's purpose)

Regarding the handle, yep, it's very nice, as I'd expect from WOOX. Unnoticeable in the pictures is what feels like a three hold curvature to the handle; high, mid and low. Initially I thought it to be paint, there is a gnerling like texture that makes the grip the best I've held on a wooden handle. It appears to be etched into the wood. When holding it in the low position the texture is appreciated. Durability unknown.
The 19 handle measures 17.5 to tip of the toe as it sits. There is an abrupt change in thickness of the handle where the bit is intended to sit,
The handle feels odd when you engage in picking as the shape of the handle, with it's CS hawk compatible shape, has a tight radius that slips past the flexor pollicis brevis of the hand unless your grip is adjusted to roll the handle inward toward the palm.

Overall, great feel to the Solo, CG seems to be directly behind the beard with a quick on the finger balance test. This makes it feel great when choked up and very forward feeling when held low. This feels hefty when held low, more than the numbers would dictate, reminiscent of the Forte-X.
It would be nice if this shared the same handle as the Forte so one could just swap out the head for the intended application. This seems like a missed opportunity at commonality.

I have no idea how it performs in the field yet. I look forward to your correspondence.

I'd say that the design still captures what I wanted it to do, it's just that it could have gotten the last 2% of performance qualities I wanted if they'd just allowed for a little more back-and-forth to figure out the best way to achieve the benefits I wanted out of the features.

The ridge along the spine is for a few purposes -- it reinforces the toe to reduce wear from ground strikes, creates a grip point for knife-like usage, and aids in splitting. It should cause the split to ride far enough forward of the bit-to-eye transition below the rib as to eliminate its role in splitting performance.

The "tactical" aspect of the prompt was more aesthetic, and took a backseat to the "practical" aspect. The pick is chiefly for digging and chipping, but still would have more penetration than the bit would if looking for a force concentrator like an outright spike. I wanted it to be able to move at least a little dirt in addition to breaking it up. It's no shovel, but it has more scooping ability than a narrow pick would have.

I'd very much like to design other heads that use the Forte's eye, it's just a matter of them asking me to. The main reason I went with the Cold Steel eye is that their hawks are market dominators and makes it so that WOOX is able to offer a direct replacement handle upgrade for them. But when I designed the Forte I made the eye a size and shape that should be compatible with both large and small axes and allow enough wood in the eye for sub-par wood species to be used in a pinch by the end user. I've even gotten a (VERY SHORT but better than nothing) pine handle to work in it.

 

[Baumgarden]

thank you for that explanation, it makes sense, every bit.
I can vouch for the pick's ability to de-ice a situation, this is making for a great cold weather tool with the stiff wide pick and the chisel like end. Like I said before, tactical wasn't my need, there are lots of very good options for that, I wanted practical. Very cold where I am right now as well as for the foreseeable future, hopefully I can get out to put this to more work soon.
Do you have the ability to verify what portions have been heat treated and what level was achieved?
Side question to you FortyTwoBlades , what is a superior cold weather steel in a impact tool (longevity as a goal)?

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I don't reasonably have the ability to get that information through my channels but you may be able to ask their sales staff. This may seem a little unusual but it's because of the specific channels through which I communicated with them. Regarding cold weather steel Larrin has an excellent article here.
On a related note my example arrived shortly after my last post and I'd say they got close enough to what I was aiming for when submitting the original design to them for it to represent a fair value at the price they have it at, but it could have been done better had they simply communicated more with me after hitting their first speed-bumps. They're still new to the tool industry, however, so there's bound to be some growing pains as they learn how to navigate the space. As a small hunting and camping 'hawk capable of splitting and digging, as intended, it should perform well.