Info on 317,is dating possible

gsea

gsea

Joined
Feb 7, 2014
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I read an early post http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1207358-Nail-Nicks?highlight=buck+317 that discusses the a possible why to date a 317. As you see the conclusion was the nail nicks were random

So my question is can the sheath date the 317. I have two types of 317 sheaths. Both of them are the same in the front. Snap with just Buck on it and the same font for the Buck on the flap. The difference is where the belt loop is placed one is high on the sheath the other is low. Just random or could this be a separation between years?

On aside note does BCCI sell back newsletters to non-members? I do plan on getting a lifetime membership after the holidays when money is freed up. There are two newsletters with 317 articles I would like to have sooner rather than later.

Thanks for any info.







 
I have zero knowledge on the sheaths, I know there are several people who can talk this talk.

You will just have to get someone to copy and email to you till then. I know there are computer people better than me also. I was trying to remember the articles. I would have to go look them up to know which ones you are talking about. Why don't you give the dates and maybe someone will do that.

Here's my dating opinion at this time. IF you have original sheath and boxes then you might be able to say this one was later, this one was earlier by using the box and / or sheath. After having talked to Camillus craftsmen that built 317s, as much as I might want there to be a way to tell, I don't think there is and be certain just using the knife. I think Bert will agree with me. Remember, Camillus shipped the contract knives, wrapped in tissue with several in a box. Buck then re-boxed them in Buck boxes with sheaths and papers.

With that said, if I was a horses rearend, I would say, "How do you know this is the original sheath that was with this knife", especially if you were trying to sell it to me as a early version at extra cost.

300
 
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Hi gsea,

I wish I could help with your 317 questions, but that is not in my wheel house. However, you can get an E membership to the BCCI for just $10 and you will have your own access to the web site.
jb4570.
 
Thanks 300, both sheaths are marked 317, same place on the back bottom. Besides the "salesman sample" and the early ones with the 317 stamp on the pile side, and the serrated one is there any other versions besides the normal production ones.

As far as the BCCI newsletters if anyone is inclined I am looking for the march 2005 (article by LO) and the sept 2014, I believe there is an article by Berti?
It would be much appreciated.
 
gsea,

If you give me your e-mail address I will forward the articles to you on one condition: you will join BCCI as soon as possible.

Bert
 
Yes, one Can date the knife by the sheath. Assuming it has the Correct, original sheath. Those with the loop high on the sheath and the top of the pouch scalloped are made during the era of the 2 dots. Perhaps extending into 1980, the 3 dots. But they are mostly a mid 70's to 1980 style sheath. SO, mostly a time frame and not an exact date but a good rule of thumb. DM
 
I have a Buck 317, dated to 1979 by the insert literature (12/78 on the instructions). I'm not the original owner, so I used that date to establish the knife's era. My knife has the high mounted belt loop (like the more worn sheath in your photo). OH

DSC025192.JPG
 
Open the flap on the sheath and look at the top of the pouch. To see if the top is scalloped. Plus, Hunter those papers have a date. So, there is another way to date this model. DM
 
I am chiming in with my two cents worth. Trying to date the 317s is sort of an “any port in a storm” situation. You use whatever is available, hope for the best, and then give a disclaimer rather than talking in absolutes. Dating the first 317s with a “Buck/Made in USA” stamp is no problem. It is the 15 or so years of the “Buck/317/USA” knives that give all of us fits.

I agree with David that sheaths can point to a time range but not to a year. We have to remember that there are four sets of inventories to look at: the knives, the sheaths, the box and the paperwork. Working with four separate inventories can cause a problem, even if the knife is straight from the factory.

I think the paperwork is least reliable, even though it is usually dated. This stuff was printed up in very large quantities and put in the boxes until it was gone. The result is that old paperwork can be placed with a new knife.

There is some variation in the boxes. Texture and slight color differences occur according to the year range. Some of the boxes were not made for the 317 and have a gold foil label on the end. I have a few but haven’t taken the label off to see the original. I have heard that 137 Steelmaster boxes were used. That might have been early on, or it might have been later after the Steelmaster was discontinued.

Sheaths are probably a better indicator, but not what I would consider reliable. Older sheaths could be packaged with newer knives or vice versa.

My biggest problem with all of this is that it’s going to make me work. I store sheaths and boxes separately from my knives and don’t pay much attention to them. They are labeled to match a particular knife, but they are not organized. Now I’ll have to dig them out and take a look.
Bert
 
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I have both high and low with no scalloping. My brain hurts :confused:
David Martin said:
Yes, one Can date the knife by the sheath. Assuming it has the Correct, original sheath. Those with the loop high on the sheath and the top of the pouch scalloped are made during the era of the 2 dots. Perhaps extending into 1980, the 3 dots. But they are mostly a mid 70's to 1980 style sheath. SO, mostly a time frame and not an exact date but a good rule of thumb. DM
Click to expand...
 
Sounds to me like your getting Collector Brain........I have to take medicine....300
 
300Bucks said:
Sounds to me like your getting Collector Brain........I have to take medicine....300
Click to expand...

Send me the script .......... On another note I read all the time that a 110 sheath fits a 317. Any 317 I have does not fit, in fact if you put them side by side the 317 sheath is noticeably larger. Am I missing something?
 
A comparison of my 110 sheath (from two dot 110, date unknown) and my 317 sheath (instruction sheet dated 12/78). OH

Front View (110 left/317 right).
IMG_55142.JPG


Back View (flap snapped height of 110 sheath is 5-5/8", flap snapped height of 317 sheath is 5-7/8").
IMG_55092.JPG


View of scalloped pouch tops (110 left/317 right).
IMG_55121.JPG
 
Here is another idea. In another thread 300Bucks mentioned that early 300 series knives can show tarnishing or corrosion of the back springs since they were not stainless. The test for that is simple, and I imagine someone knows roughly when the change to stainless was made.
 
That is what I have the height difference. Don't see how a 110 sheath holds a 317. I can not get any to fit. Thanks for the pics OH saved me the trouble of posting pics.
 
Hunter, Thank you for adding the photo of the scalloped topped sheaths. Agreed, not a date but a time frame. DM
 
bertl said:
Here is another idea. In another thread 300Bucks mentioned that early 300 series knives can show tarnishing or corrosion of the back springs since they were not stainless. The test for that is simple, and I imagine someone knows roughly when the change to stainless was made.
Click to expand...

That makes sense, all my 317s have no tarnishing or corrosion. I have seen a few that do (they didn't have sheaths) so maybe they were the older ones which would explain somewhat no sheath due to extended use, just plain gone etc. Learn every day I thought the 317 never went to stainless thanks Berti good to know.
 
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