Info on metal for making a knife

B

blackgrub0331

Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
72
I'm looking at getting some higher quality metal to make a few knives with. Right now I'm just using some scrap metal to fool around with. What I'd like to know is there different types of metal that are better to use for different types of blades?

I like to make hard use knives so is there a better type of metal to use? I don't want to just go out and buy some 440C and find out that the D-2 that i can get cheaper would work better for me and my use.

Also what are some good web site and books that can tell me this info? Thanks.
 
Well, you're at a good website to find this info. Check the sticky thread at the top of this forum. That'll give you a good start.

-d
 
Lot's of place you can get info. Have you tried a search?????

But now for questions of you. Forge or grind? Home heat treat of out source?

ron
 
For home HT use only simple steels .The complex tool steels and stainless steels require precise control of times and temperatures -not for beginners ! You could however make a knife of the complex steels and send it out for HT.
 
blackgrub0331 said:
Right now I'm just looking at grinding and home heat treat. In some time forging but that will be in the next few years.
Click to expand...

You do not want either D2 or 440C for home heat treatment without a controllable furnace.

Try some 1084 or 5160. Both are forgiving and you can get a reasonable result without precise temperature control.
 
L-6 is another deep hardening steel that makes a great knife and is fairly forgiving on a home HT. O-1 is,too.
Stacyu
 
I don't think the steel is AS important as proper heat treating. I tend to use OLD L-6 from the thicker larger bandsaws and that stuff rocks. I use 5160, 52100, 1095 to 1050, W-2, O-1, and make my own damascus.....

5160 is a great steel that is forgiving.... These steels I heat treat myself. If you are doing a short blade you can use a firebrick, MAPP Gas kit from local hardware store, stainless steel mudd pan, veggie oil, magnet, and tongs of some sort to heat treat carbon steels at home.

I use an oil pan from a Chevy 350 with extra virgin olive oil and smells like burnt fries when I put it in the tempering oven (toaster oven). Why a chevy 350 oil pan? Goes Faster than a import pan.....joking.....

Not the expense in tools is the important thing.....but using what you have. You don't have to have alot to make a great blade....

If you want to make yourself a grinder....go to my site and I have two sketches from ones I made... and if you need any help.... just email me or if you are close to Fort Bragg, NC just call and stop on bye.....

Daniel
 
Daniel Prentice said:
I don't think the steel is AS important as proper heat treating. I tend to use OLD L-6 from the thicker larger bandsaws and that stuff rocks. I use 5160, 52100, 1095 to 1050, W-2, O-1, and make my own damascus.....

Daniel
Click to expand...

I'm not near to making damascus yet!! Where do you get the L-6 at? I've looked on the net and did not find one place that sold it. I also looked at a few old saw mill blades but they did not tell what type of stell they where made from. Also what about the A-2 how is that ?
 
I don't use stainless and air hardening steels right now. I called a few lumber yards that cut trees into lumber and got their stock from them after they are broken or being replaced. FREE!!!! most of the time and I still make something for them. You can get L-6 from Admiral steel but it is not the same in cutting performance I been getting with this stuff. Or check out the flea markets in your area and look for old large saw blades. Hope that helps.
 
L-6 is available from Admiral and most major steel suppliers. It can come from some "scrap" sources ,such as large band saw blades. Found steel is not always reliable,unless you have a consistent source and can do some HT testing. At your level.I would suggest purchasing the L-6 from a supplier.It is not expensive. The HT can be done with a basic home setup that can be temperature controlled to a reasonable degree.If you are talking about doing HT with a torch or a one brick forge,the results will always be a bit variable (and possible inferior).At the Dixie Classic hammer-in last weekend we made a Journeyman test knife from L-6. Bert Foster forged it with a propane forge, did the HT in a HT oven made from a mail box and insuwool (with a pyrometer so you knew the temp),quenched in oil,tempered in a toaster oven (with the pyrometer inserted).None of this equipment was fancy of expensive. It would shave hair, chopped through a 2X4 twice,cut a dangling 1" rope in a snap, and still shaved hair (with the edge undamaged). It bent to 90 degrees and came back to around 30 degrees.We did a destruction test and had to bend it to 115 degrees before it broke. The grain was very fine and even.I couldn't think of a better testimonial for L-6 as a steel that was easy,forgiving,and would perform well.The L-6 came from Admiral.
Stacy
 
Daniel Prentice said:
I don't use stainless and air hardening steels right now. I called a few lumber yards that cut trees into lumber and got their stock from them after they are broken or being replaced. FREE!!!! most of the time and I still make something for them. You can get L-6 from Admiral steel but it is not the same in cutting performance I been getting with this stuff. Or check out the flea markets in your area and look for old large saw blades. Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

Ok then I did have the right idea to start looking for old saw mill blades I found a few 18+ inch blades for sale for $5.00 and another 20 inch for $20. I made my best knife back in 2004 when I was in Iraq and during the down time when we where not on post we would use old saw blades and a torch to make a knife it was the best knife I ever made the only bad thing was that it was taken away from me at customs because they said it looked like a shank. Mostly because I had no handl on it and the blade was rough looking.



bladsmth said:
L-6 is available from Admiral and most major steel suppliers. It can come from some "scrap" sources ,such as large band saw blades. Found steel is not always reliable,unless you have a consistent source and can do some HT testing. At your level.I would suggest purchasing the L-6 from a supplier.It is not expensive. The HT can be done with a basic home setup that can be temperature controlled to a reasonable degree.If you are talking about doing HT with a torch or a one brick forge,the results will always be a bit variable (and possible inferior).At the Dixie Classic hammer-in last weekend we made a Journeyman test knife from L-6. Bert Foster forged it with a propane forge, did the HT in a HT oven made from a mail box and insuwool (with a pyrometer so you knew the temp),quenched in oil,tempered in a toaster oven (with the pyrometer inserted).None of this equipment was fancy of expensive. It would shave hair, chopped through a 2X4 twice,cut a dangling 1" rope in a snap, and still shaved hair (with the edge undamaged). It bent to 90 degrees and came back to around 30 degrees.We did a destruction test and had to bend it to 115 degrees before it broke. The grain was very fine and even.I couldn't think of a better testimonial for L-6 as a steel that was easy,forgiving,and would perform well.The L-6 came from Admiral.
Stacy
Click to expand...

Thanks I'll have to get some from Admiral steel. I might pick up a few buzz saw blades to get use to how the metal works.
 
As a personal rule I try not to get caught up in threads that involve a lot of guessing games about mystery metals, but you seem to have a real interest in making a good knife with a minimum of tooling so...

Congratulations on your determination to move from "fooling around with scrap metals" and moving on to known materials, it is the very first step from hobbyist/tinkering to getting serious about knifemaking with progress in performance. Using scrap metal always hinges on items that "could be" or "should be" a given steel, often based upon the reading of certain lists or charts backwards, but enough on that:).

Now that we are into known steels, as has been pointed out, many alloys are just a little too much for the guys just starting out to juggle. But after working with O1 and L6, as well as 1084 and 1095, for most of my career, I would go a step farther and say that 01 and L6 may be in the some category as the D2, but for lesser reasons. Real L6 will be very difficult to properly anneal so that you don't burn up belts and dull drill bits and files unnecessarily. Admiral does not sell L6, as has been established here on this forum they had an alloy that they called L6 for a while but was actually variant of 8670. Real, verifiable L6 only seems to be available at this time in thicker sections or round stock (I have been squashing it flat for many years now) . These alloys have more carbides that will also require proper soaks to really see their potential.

Many good steels for you have been mentioned already. 1095, 1080, W1, W2 1084, 5160, although I would prefer, and recommend, the 1084 over the 5160. Not only are 1080 and 1070 almost the perfect beginners steels (for many sound metallurgical reasons) but they are very readily available in any knife size dimension and at a very reasonable price.
 
Kevin R. Cashen said:
As a personal rule I try not to get caught up in threads that involve a lot of guessing games about mystery metals, but you seem to have a real interest in making a good knife with a minimum of tooling so...

Congratulations on your determination to move from "fooling around with scrap metals" and moving on to known materials, it is the very first step from hobbyist/tinkering to getting serious about knifemaking with progress in performance. Using scrap metal always hinges on items that "could be" or "should be" a given steel, often based upon the reading of certain lists or charts backwards, but enough on that:).

Now that we are into known steels, as has been pointed out, many alloys are just a little too much for the guys just starting out to juggle. But after working with O1 and L6, as well as 1084 and 1095, for most of my career, I would go a step farther and say that 01 and L6 may be in the some category as the D2, but for lesser reasons. Real L6 will be very difficult to properly anneal so that you don't burn up belts and dull drill bits and files unnecessarily. Admiral does not sell L6, as has been established here on this forum they had an alloy that they called L6 for a while but was actually variant of 8670. Real, verifiable L6 only seems to be available at this time in thicker sections or round stock (I have been squashing it flat for many years now) . These alloys have more carbides that will also require proper soaks to really see their potential.

Many good steels for you have been mentioned already. 1095, 1080, W1, W2 1084, 5160, although I would prefer, and recommend, the 1084 over the 5160. Not only are 1080 and 1070 almost the perfect beginners steels (for many sound metallurgical reasons) but they are very readily available in any knife size dimension and at a very reasonable price.
Click to expand...

I'd like to know what is the prosses for anneal the L-6? I might have to try working with the W1 and W2. Thanks for the help you guys saved me a lot of money as I was going to buy a few feet of 440C or D-2 that would have been almost worthless to me.

So are all the above steel good for making thick hard use knives like Swamp rats and the BK?
 
Since you're interested in home heat treat might I suggust you either go to your local library or visit a book store (preferably used book store as it will more likely have) and look for a beginners metallurgy book. "Metallurgy Theory and Practice" is what I have.
I would also reccommend simple steels (10XX where the XX if 60 or higher or W1 or W2) as they are easiest to work with.
As for hard use heat treat is more important than steel alloy. Simple steels have been used in some of the hardest use knives for centuries and excell at it.

1095 or something close can be had in small quanties from a number of sources and buying new eleminates some uncertanity that allows you to work on developing consistant technique. I reccommend picking one steel and staying with that until you are confidant in your abilities to work that steel before trying another steel.

ron
 
Note the annealing information on this page. You can see the precise nature of the requirements for properly treating steels such as L6. O1 is a marvelous steel that CAN be heat treated with simple tools. BUT, as Kevin notes, O1 benefits tremendously from more precise treatments, especially long soak times at known temperatures. 1080 is simple, cheap and forgiving. Yes, it will make you a superb knife with simple tools and a good heat treatment.
 
How much does it cost to send your knives out to get heat treated? I'm going to have to start a new post to ask about parts for a forge
 
Blackgrub, if you decide to go with O1 and L6 with simpler equipment after all, the listed spec sheets will show how industry anneals the stuff, but that doesnt make it impossible for the average joe with a forge to work it. Spheroidal is the only way to go with these steels and one simply cannot make speroidal carbides by heating to nonmagnetic and stuffing into wood ash. Spheroidizing takes time so one needs the accurate controls to hold in a specified range long enough to accomplish it, just like the final heat treatment for these steels. But while one cannot not get top notch results without thi ability, one can get pretty good results by playing with the parameters.

For spheroidizing, one of those parameters is the prior microstructure. If you go with a mixed or coarse microstrucure it will take time to make things spheroidal, but if you go from a solution to begin with, time will be shortened considerably. If you cool the steel on the final normalization quickly enough to form martensite it will spheroidize much quicker, so then all you have to do is to heat it to around 1300F a few times without ever losing magnetic and you will take that carbon out of solution into the form of little spheroids. This is a point that I have mentioned many times before - cycling and hanging around at temps below or at Ac1 tends to take carbon out of solution, working at temps well above Ac1 puts it back into solution. This will make grinding and perhaps drilling a little nicer, but I am still not sure if I would risk my mills on it without the full industrial treatment.
 
A file makes a great knife. The steel is so hard you can barely sharpen it. You just have to be carefull grinding as to not remove the temper.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top