Infractions?

[pedropcola]

I just got an infraction for posting in a for sale thread. The post that caused the infraction stated to the buyer that I received the product. Glockman told me to review the rules, which I did, and no where does it say I can't tell the seller that the product had arrived. To tell me to put it in the "good, bad, ugly" forum would not tell the seller that the product arrived. I didn't have his email and posting that a knife arrived doesn't violate any rules that I can tell and its common courtesy. I don't really care about infractions because I don't really even know what your infraction system is about but I respect your right to make the rules. I do think violating me for chatting is absurd though. Clearly, saying a knife I bought has arrived is not chatting nor is it against the rules as they are posted. Not trying to start a problem with you Spark, but this just doesn't seem right.

 

[T.K.C.]

The rules state clearly that there is no chit-chat, and what YOU posted IS chit-chat.
And posting POSITIVE feedback on GB&U IS usually indicative OF actually receiving the product.

 

[ashtxsniper]

This is a hard decision for the mods. Sometimes you just got to bend over and after its all done just keep trucking. I got a few I thought were uncalled for but thats there decision not mine and most of the mods are really lenient good guys.

 

[pedropcola]

"Received both today Mark. Exactly as advertised, nice doing business with you." That was my exact post. For anyone to consider that chit chat is questionable at best, ludicrous at worst. I believe that telling the seller that his product has arrived is most definitely part of the sale process. If you have a problem with the second sentence then I would ask a simple question. If I just wrote the first sentence would I still have received an infraction? Was the three words "exactly as advertised" your problem area, because if it is, then I think thats crazy. Posting in the GBU forum doesn't tell the seller anything if hes not actively searching through the GBU area. It absolutely makes perfect sense, not to mention common courtesy, to tell the seller the product has arrived. If he posts that its shipped or you ask for tracking information thats not chit chat, its germane to the process of the sale. So is telling him its here. So respectfully TKC, I don't think your point is valid anymore than the original infraction was.

pete

 

[T.K.C.]

Well, this is Spark's house; his house his rules. It IS that simple.

 

[pedropcola]

Yes, it is Sparks house and if you care to read my post I clearly stated that already. I emailed the first post to Spark and he said to post it here. I clearly thought that I would get a response from a moderator not you. You seem very intent on arguing with me, which is fine, because its an internet forum and I would expect no less. Your silly responses though are getting me no closer to getting a mods input on this. I still basically want an answer to my initial question. Am I not allowed to respond to a seller when I receive the product on a sale thread? If saying thanks, or nice doing business with you crosses the line, then fine I won't ever say that again. But I want to know if I purchase a knife and tell the guy (on the thread that I purchased it from) that the knife arrived, am I going to get another infraction for chit chat? Simple question, feel free to let a mod answer it for me. I purchase alot of knives here and I have routinely told the seller that his knife arrived at my house. I do it for the same reason I appreciate someone telling me my knife has arrived at his location, its part of the business transaction. I now know I can throw all the tracking and insurance paperwork away. Simple question, not worthy of any argument with you.

pete

 

[Wabajack]

on the thread that I purchased it from

This is rediculous, that seemed very curtious of you and since it was in the SAME THREAD it would seem to be part of the purchasing process. I think that your infraction should be revised and somebody made a mistake.

 

[RedEdge77]

Yup I agree, I just went over to the forsale threads and noticed comments in other threads. They may have been warned as well but i'm not sure.

 

[pedropcola]

I am not trying to start any arguments but the rules don't cover this. I guess anything other than "I will take it" could be construed as "chit chat". I just bought a knife tonight on the forum and when it arrives later this week, normally I would post on the thread that it has arrived. Is this not allowed? That is a simple yes or no. My two cents is that it should be allowed because its part of the sale process. I just want to know.

pete

 

[ashtxsniper]

"Received both today Mark. Exactly as advertised, nice doing business with you." That was my exact post. For anyone to consider that chit chat is questionable at best, ludicrous at worst. I believe that telling the seller that his product has arrived is most definitely part of the sale process. If you have a problem with the second sentence then I would ask a simple question. If I just wrote the first sentence would I still have received an infraction? Was the three words "exactly as advertised" your problem area, because if it is, then I think thats crazy. Posting in the GBU forum doesn't tell the seller anything if hes not actively searching through the GBU area. It absolutely makes perfect sense, not to mention common courtesy, to tell the seller the product has arrived. If he posts that its shipped or you ask for tracking information thats not chit chat, its germane to the process of the sale. So is telling him its here. So respectfully TKC, I don't think your point is valid anymore than the original infraction was.

pete

I dont see any problem with what happened and I dont think you should have got an infraction but it is sparks house. So sometimes you just got to take the sh** that comes with this forum. Trust me it only took me a quarter of a year to realize this. Unfortunately arguing with the mods is futile ask valley tin works. If you are not careful and you type the wrong sh** you will just get more infractions. As long as the infraction you received has an expiration date you will be OK you just have to lay low till it expires. I am not telling you how to beat the system but if you get mad they will come down on you like Thor's hammer so you just have to bottle up your pride and let the infraction expire. If it is a permanent infraction then it is a different story. Just take it, it will expire, all will be well, and then life will go on. If you are hard headed like me then this is really hard but you cant win this argument unless spark rules in your favor. I am will to bet glockman gave you this infraction and if he did then you just got to understand he is strict but he is one of the best mods you will meet. He has to enforce the rules ( in your case it is a little overboard) but he is a good guy and he will treat you more than fair. The reason you got this infraction is because members were posting like you did and it got out of hand. I don't like the rule but if they made exceptions for everyone it would be hell on the mods deciphering who could post and who couldn't. I am willing to bet you got 5 infraction points that expire for this post but it takes 50 to get banned. I am not playing sides here but it is sparks house and his moderators have the final say. If you can look past the infractions and move on you will enjoy this place. Otherwise if you get mad they will just ban you so put up with it and get along or get mad and get banned. I know this looks like I am taking up for the mods but I am not I just know the situation they are in. Don't get mad I am just telling you how it is from a person who has learned the hard way. I hope all works out for you in the long run at BF. OBTW I have had a lot of Budweiser .

 

[RedEdge77]

I got an infraction that will not expire because I said something that was a little racist, but whats the point of giving an infraction that doesn't expire that is not worth any points?

 

[pedropcola]

I hear you sniper. I don't plan on getting mad, I just want to get a simple answer. This was clearly over the top and I don't think it can be justified reasonably. I just want to know if I can tell a guy that the knife he shipped me arrived. Thats it.

 

[Cougar Allen]

Boy, there's a lot of confusion here.... It would be appropriate to post in TGB&U about a pleasant experience in a transaction; that benefits everybody by giving everybody an opportunity to find out who's good to deal with. Unfortunately many people don't do that, and they often post in the for-sale thread which accomplishes nothing and just clutters up the for-sale forum by kicking a thread back to the top after the transaction is over. It isn't useful there because few will notice it before it gets purged. TGB&U is a permanent record that is never purged.

But you say you posted there because you wanted to let the seller know and you had no other way to reach him???

The moderators never anticipated that situation. You had no way to get in contact with him other than posting on Bladeforums and you sent him money???? We never expected that to happen. I am sure if the moderator involved had known that he wouldn't have objected to your use of the only means of communication available, but surely you can't expect him to guess that.

Normally people don't engage in transactions without finding out the other guy's address and phone number first, and of course you can send email and Private Messages through Bladeforums unless he has chosen to disable those functions. All I can think is if you sent money to someone who has disabled email and PMs and didn't give you a phone number, you are very lucky to have escaped with only a minor infraction. I suppose we can probably get that reversed, but maybe instead of asking to have the infraction reversed you should be taking this as a learning experience that was much cheaper than it might have been....

 

[Cougar Allen]

I got an infraction that will not expire because I said something that was a little racist, but whats the point of giving an infraction that doesn't expire that is not worth any points?

If it wasn't worth any points it wasn't an infraction; it was only a warning. I don't think I really understand what you're complaining about ... would you like us to change it to an infraction?

Warnings and infractions for bigotry don't expire because some people are afflicted with unconscious bigotry and say something without really understanding what they're saying, but others are very consciously racists and are constantly pushing their agenda while trying to stay under the radar and avoid getting banned. We don't want to ban everybody who says something without thinking once; we do want to catch the KKKers, Neo-Nazis, etc. who are constantly trying to sneak something past us.

 

[RedEdge77]

If it wasn't worth any points it wasn't an infraction; it was only a warning. I don't think I really understand what you're complaining about ... would you like us to change it to an infraction?

Warnings and infractions for bigotry don't expire because some people are afflicted with unconscious bigotry and say something without really understanding what they're saying, but others are very consciously racists and are constantly pushing their agenda while trying to stay under the radar and avoid getting banned. We don't want to ban everybody who says something without thinking once; we do want to catch the KKKers, Neo-Nazis, etc. who are constantly trying to sneak something past us.

Alright sorry. I didn't mean it as something not to be punished, I was just merely curious as to why it will never expire. Sorry again for the hassling.

 

[Mike G]

I dont see any problem with what happened and I dont think you should have got an infraction but it is sparks house. So sometimes you just got to take the sh** that comes with this forum. Trust me it only took me a quarter of a year to realize this. Unfortunately arguing with the mods is futile ask valley tin works. If you are not careful and you type the wrong sh** you will just get more infractions. As long as the infraction you received has an expiration date you will be OK you just have to lay low till it expires. I am not telling you how to beat the system but if you get mad they will come down on you like Thor's hammer so you just have to bottle up your pride and let the infraction expire. If it is a permanent infraction then it is a different story. Just take it, it will expire, all will be well, and then life will go on. If you are hard headed like me then this is really hard but you cant win this argument unless spark rules in your favor. I am will to bet glockman gave you this infraction and if he did then you just got to understand he is strict but he is one of the best mods you will meet. He has to enforce the rules ( in your case it is a little overboard) but he is a good guy and he will treat you more than fair. The reason you got this infraction is because members were posting like you did and it got out of hand. I don't like the rule but if they made exceptions for everyone it would be hell on the mods deciphering who could post and who couldn't. I am willing to bet you got 5 infraction points that expire for this post but it takes 50 to get banned. I am not playing sides here but it is sparks house and his moderators have the final say. If you can look past the infractions and move on you will enjoy this place. Otherwise if you get mad they will just ban you so put up with it and get along or get mad and get banned. I know this looks like I am taking up for the mods but I am not I just know the situation they are in. Don't get mad I am just telling you how it is from a person who has learned the hard way. I hope all works out for you in the long run at BF. OBTW I have had a lot of Budweiser .

I have to take exception here to the Valley Tin Works situation.

His infraction was reversed once I went over his post, and determined that I had made an error in issuing the infraction.

Where he ran into problems was when he started throwing a fit that I would expect from a two year old, not an adult who allegedly owns a successful business. The mods do NOT have to tolerate disrespect, nor do we tolerate demands to reverse infractions. VTW cussed me out, DEMANDED that I remove the infraction, and genarally treated me like I was his bitch. I don't tolerate that from anyone. I reviewed the infraction, reversed it, and apologized. He, however, chose to continue his two year old fit, and got dinged again by another mod.

Bottom line in this case; I made a mistake. I reviewed and reversed it, and made an apology. Instead of being respectful, and polite, and asking me NICELY to review it, he DEMANDED I reverse it, and cussed me out, and posted a thread trashing on me even before I had the opportunity to review.

The mods here are human. We make mistakes. We have to judge each post, see if it fits inside, or outside the rules, and make a decision. Sometimes we get it right, sometimes we are only partially right, and others we are wrong. If we are wrong, and you believe that to be the case, a polite PM or email asking for a review and explanation will go a very long ways in earning you respect, and may even get you a break. if you choose to be a smart ass, and demand the mods do something, you won't get anywhere, especially with me.

 

[zenheretic]

Well I'm glad this subject came up. I haven't bought a knife here since the new crack down came into effect on the sale threads. I'm aware of the no chit-chat policy yet I would have posted a "received" post in the sale thread. It must be a reflex from ebay or something.

I would have also posted in GB&U...perhaps I learned it from the Dept. of Redundancy Dept.

Oh well Pete, now we all know, and in a month your infraction will be long gone.

 

[ashtxsniper]

Hey code3 I dint mean to come across like that. It wasn't about you as you are just doing your job. All I meant to say was the more you open your mouth the more infractions you get. I like VTW and you both and I don't want to get involved int he matter but my point was take your licks and sit back cause if you open you mouth you just get more problems. I just didn't want to see this one go bad like some of the others and another forum member get banned because of smart*** comments. Keep up the good work code3.

 

[pedropcola]

Well, to clarify, I did have his emal initially. Once I sent the money order though I got rid of it and only kept the post office paperwork(tracking slip with address). So, yes I did have his name and address but I wasn't planning on making him my new pen pal just to tell him my knife arrived. I understand your sarcasm but respectfully would say that any deal on the internet involving cash (or mo) is risky and you would have little recourse if it went bad. Don't mean to be argumentative but thats two mods that chimed in and still no answer to the basic question. "Can I post in the original thread that the knife arrived?" BTW, the actual infraction/warning I got wasn't for chit chat, it was for posting in the wrong forum (I read it wrong the first time). Not trying to make an issue with anyone, I follow rules better than most and I will follow yours but I have to know what they are. You guys keep moving the cheese. I got written up for posting in the wrong forum, ok, I will never say nice doing business with you or thanks or whatever, I will put no positive or negative spin to any of my comments. Can I say the knife arrived in the original thread? BTW, I realize that being a mod is thankless and you have to deal with lots of unreasonable people, requests, etc. I am not trying to give you guys grief, but I think this is a legitimate question and if you go through the for sale threads its very common for people to say "product arrived today, thanks". The issue is that the rules don't state that you can't say that. In fact, it specifically says the post must be "germane" to the sale/purchase. Based on my trusty Webster's old school dictionary this statement would be germane. I only want to know so I can keep myself out of knife "jail' in the future. Have a wonderful day.

pete

 

[Cougar Allen]

NO. You should let the seller know it arrived in email. You should let other people know by posting in TGB&U. You should not clutter up the Exchange forums by kicking a dead thread back to the top. That's what all the new rules are about, giving people a chance to have their ads seen and not letting everything get buried pages down the list shortly after it's posted.