Initial Comparison - ZTBM vs Basic 9

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Feb 26, 2002
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I just this moment received a beautiful pristine combat grade ZTBM-E from the Skunk. It is in absolutely brand new, pristine condition - a beautiful knife. The combat grade is different to the normal ZT. This one has the black, crinkle-cut coating and the asymmetric edge. If you go back a few weeks in the "For Sale" threads you will find a picture of the knife (or its twin) for sale from the Idahoskunk.

My initial thought was to compare it to my venerable Basic 9. Even though both have been described elsewhere before, I can't ever remember seeing a comparison between the two and in many ways they are very similar. In fact, come to think of it, I don't know whether there ever has been a thread describing the combat zero tolerance BM in any detail. I think the Skunk said there were only about 20 ever sold to the public.

The first thing that struck me about the BM was how uncomfortable the handle was compared to the Basic 9. The E handle was wider and yet thinner, harder on the hand, and less well shaped and rounded. I can remember reading a thread a few years ago where Jerry and Cliff discussed the small handle size of the E series in general (and I suppose mine is even smaller being a ZT blade - I don't know if the micarta is thickened to compensate for the thinner steel on the ZT series but I suspect not). Jerry basically said that handle size was the hardest thing to complete on a knife to make everyone happy. There were simply too many different sized and shaped hands out there. He believed it was better to err on the side of making the handle too small so material could be added rather than to make it too big and have owners try to remove material. I agree. In fact the first thing I did was to wrap a squash racquet handle around it and this significantly improved the feel. However, I think I still need to go and buy an even thinker rubber grip. I sure this will also help to dampen any vibration through the blade when using (I haven't had a chance to use it yet). I may even try using some cord wrap eventually.

The next thing I noticed was how the E handle allowed more versatility. I could close up on the grip or move my hand right to the end of the handle but still maintain a secure grip. The Basic 9 handle, although very comfortable, tended to lock my hand in one position in comparison. I think the flexibility of the E handle has been mentioned many times before in other threads.

Next I compared the blades. Both have the standard busse asymmetrical edge and the black coating. The E blade cutting edge is 1/4 inch longer than the Basic 9 and the E knife is about 1/2 inch longer overall. The stangest thing from my point of view was that I found the drop point of the E more appealing in appearance than the clip point of the Basic 9. I had viewed lots of photos of the E series before and had never taken to the drop point. I thought the drop point on the Busse Battle Mistress looked - well, I hate to say it - it looked ugly compared to clip point knives. But holding it in my hand, I love it. I like it more than the clip point. Maybe it is the swedge on the ZT series that makes it look so appealing. By the way, that swedge looks awfully tempting to sharpen.

A surprising feature I hadn't expected was that the 3/16 inch E knife was heavier that the 1/4 inch basic. The Basic 9 weighed in at 15.77 ounces, the E knife weighed 18.41 ounces. I suppose the extra length of the E blade had something to do with it. I can't feel the difference in hand but that may have something to do with the more forward heaviness of the Basic 9 compared to the more neutral balance of the E blade.

One more comparison - I have read about the super strength of 1/4 inch blades. I can assure you that holding the 3/16 inch ZTBM-E blade in my hand, there is no way I am going to bend this so-called thin blade. I have total confidence that it would easily support my weight and will be indestructible for any normal use I can conceive of. From memory, I think Jerry has reported how it is generally easier and cheaper to make blades 1/4 inch because that is the size the INFI comes in. It would be interesting to see someone do a comparison of the strength of the 1/4 inch versus the 3/16 inch in the BM length.

The only other point of note is that the BM came in the factory sheath (cordura covered kydex). I love this style of sheath. The only problem is that with the handle now thickened, I cannot clip the top strap on the sheath around the handle - a minor problem really because the blade sits nice and firm without this.

All in all, I am very happy chappy and well pleased with my new knife. By the way, a big thankyou to the Idahoskunk for the ZTBM, the Skunk is a pleasure to deal with. :)
 
i went the opposite direction, from battle mistress to basic 9 :)

i found that the battle mistress handles were to broad as well as to heavy for my hands. wich is not to say that it was to heavy to handle, just that it balanced to much towards the handle compared to the basic 9. i actually like the fact that the basic 9 handles lock your hand into the one chopping position, wich to me feels like security (though i understand the benefit of reverse, forward, back, and side grips).

as far as the extra length of the battle mistress' handle adding to the weight, its not just the length, the battle mistress' full tang extrends farther out in all directions then the basic 9.

i would definitely be interested in how the two would compare hand in hand... a valid and interesting comparison thread :D


with 1/4 vs. 3/16, i feel that you will most feel the difference in blades that arent as broad as the battle mistress, like the skeleton key. once you get something thats that (thin?) the flex factor becomes an issue. like with the NICK's, they feel very stable in the hand at .09" thick, yet when you cut the height of the blade in half, it feels considerably more vulnerable to bending.
 
man... i just want the new battle mistress to come out so bad now that the steel heart is coming out :(
 
Jerry, don't listen to people like SethMurdoc. Take your time, I think you should wait at least six more months before releasing another member of the Fusion series, make them perfect, no shortcuts. And I think it will be character building for people like SethMurdoc to wait, to learn patience (The fact that I have blown my knife budget for this year with the purchase of the ZTBM, a Battle Rat, and three Spydercos has nothing to do with it ......... but in six months time I think my wife will give me back my credit card! Please don't bring any out before then or, or, or ........ I could be driven to drink, would you want that on your conscience.) :(
 
there is a difference between patience, and the inability to obtain something regardless of the actions taken to aqcuire it.

like buying a pair of shoes when they go on sale, vs. buying that same pair of shoe's when they come out. both are a two month wait, one of them is a matter or patience, the other is a matter of simply not being able to get what you want, now, period.

patience is a good virtue, but being able to wait for something that is gaurenteed to not be there for a long period of time is unavoidable.


i have the basic 9 to tide me over, im just afraid that when i get the steel heart it will be like how i felt about the basic 7, a total middle of the road knife that was too big for general carry, and to small for serious chopping. same for how i felt about the mojo :(

we'll see though... i'll probably just buy the steel heart and see how it performs. if i like it, then i'll probably buythe battle mistress as well...
 
Sorry for taking the mickey out of you Seth, Australians have a weird sense of humour. I agree with your sentiments about middle size knives. I have a Fallkniven A1 and a Satin Jack that I feel fall into that middle of the road category. Beautiful knives and I love them both and I have no intention of ever getting rid of them, but my recent purchases are for choppers (eg. ZTBM) and stainless steel slicers (eg. Spyderco Military) to complement each other when camping. The choppers for making wood chips or for stripping outer wet timber after rain. The slicers for food preparation etc. The middle of the road knives can do the jobs, but just not as well. I have to say that fusion Battle Mistress looks ever so tempting. :(
 
its going to be interesting to see the difference between the regular ztbm and the terror monkey special handle bm. the thing i disliked most about the bm-e was the handle heavy design, and the overal heigth of the handle... it would make it a truly amazing knife if the special handle moves the center of balance forward a little...
 
We're thinking along the same lines. At Jerry's suggestion, my ZTBM is on its way to him right now to modify the size of the handle to fit my hand size. :)
 
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