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Insulating my shop.

docdredd

docdredd

Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
587
ok guys here's the drill. my shop is 21 ftx 21ft with 11 ft ceilings. its made up of sheet metal (walls and roof) nailed to a frame work of rough sawn lumbar and telephone polls sunk into concrete for a frame. im sick and tired of freezing my fat butt off whenever im out there in the winter and sweating it off in the summer.
Therefor by royal proclamation of me. i have decided to insulate it and install a window mounted A/C unit. My problem is in not sure what kind of insulation i should get since im sure that the building will sweat and im not sure if this will fudge up anything or not. im lookin for input from you guys that have done this already. what kind/type of insulation , tips and tricks, and home remedies for the infernal itching that is sure to come with it :D
thanks for all input
peace
jon "doc" silas
 
You can get plastic sheeting to cover your insulation on both the inside and outside. Just use a staple gun to hold the first layer as to create a vapor barrier between the sheet metal and the inside of the shop. Then put roll up insulation in the proper thickness in between all of the rough sawn lumber. Then cover the entire thing with another layer of plastic. Keep the water out and you'll be fine.
 
ok cool i was wondering if i was gonna need to vapor lock it or not. also does the wood/glass/metal dust mess with your a/c any?
 
I would look into insulation that is actually designed for use in steel buildings like the stuff listed here:
http://www.insulation4less.com/?OVR...VKEY=steel building insulation&OVMTC=standard

Its pricy, but you will only need 3 rolls of material to do all of your walls and ceiling. The FBF material has an R value up to 14.1 , which is comparable to fiberglass batt insulation, and it has Class A fire resistance. You really don't want to have exposed kraft face, or fiberglass insulation around grinders,forges and all that. Way too much chance of sparks igniting it, or getting trapped inside and smoldering.
This stuff is also designed to be used directly against sheet metal. You don't have to put in your own vapor barrier.

Check out the installation method for pole barns
http://www.insulation4less.com/installation_pdf/polebarn.pdf
You can pretty much just staple it to the inside of the perlins and tape the seams. Wrap it over the poles if you want to be really thorough.



Another option would be to use 1" Dowboard and put a layer of 1/4" OSB over top of it. This should get an R-value between 6 and 7, and you shouldn't have issues with moisture. The OSB could just be 4X8 sheets hung vertically. The top 3 ft of insulation can be exposed, you just don't want it unprotected down where you're working.
 
Just looked through my construction costs book, and they list the national average for the foil type insulation as $25/100SF which ends up at $0.25/square foot. The national average for R11 fiberglass blanket/batts is $0.37/SF.
You'll have to see how things are priced in your area, but it looks like the foil type would actually be cheaper.
 
WOW haha thanks for the information dump!!! im taking it that the higher the R rating the better the insulation. im new to all this and doing it all myself to save $. do you get the same insulating factor from thinner foil as you do thick fiberglass?
 
R-value is the inverse of the materials heat conductivity. So the higher the R-value, the better the insulation.

I haven't used the foil type personally, but have seen it used before. I know you can make the fiberglass work in a sheet metal building, but it all has to be done right, and after seeing the moisture problems caused by doing it wrong I wouldn't take the chance.
Once the fiberglass is saturated it loses its insulatng properties anyway, and you get problems with mold and rot. And because its like a big sponge, it doesn't dry out very well.

I knew there was stuff specifically for steel buildings because I've been in a lot of barns where it was used, so I looked it up and that site was the first one I found. It looks like you could get free shipping if you decided to go with that stuff too.

I looked again and the R14 for the foil is only for downward heat flow, it would work like R6 for your walls and R4 for your ceiling which isn't all that great. Ignoring doors and windows you'd be looking at about 10,500 btu/hr heat loss, add in air exchange for loose construction at another 4500btu/hr....and you're looking at about 4400watts/hr to keep your shop 70 degrees on a 30 degree day. Bout 40 cents an hour if you use electric.

If you got it to an average of R10 for the walls and ceiling that would drop to a little under 10,000btu/hr or 3000watts. It definitely pays in the long run to use better insulation.

Keep in mind, I'm going to school for construction management. We "estimate" everything. If you want real numbers you'll have to talk to an HVAC guy :D
 
You may not need insulation at all, Just get a hotter forge!!!!:D I can't keep my shop below 80 when I'm forging and it's been cold as hell here!
 
From an AC/Heat point of view, a bitt indrectly off topic, but look into a motel heat/Ac type unit.....might be economically possible....

Insulation needs to be spark and grind throwoff hot stuff-resistant....
If insulating, consider covering with fire resistant wallboard.....
 
rocketmann said:
You may not need insulation at all, Just get a hotter forge!!!!:D I can't keep my shop below 80 when I'm forging and it's been cold as hell here!
Click to expand...

Thats a good point, you have to consider everything that will give off heat in the shop. A forge would contribute a lot. And people doing light sedentary work give off 720 btu/hr :D

It depends on what your end goal is. If you want to be able to kick on a space heater and warm it up while you're out there for a few hours at a time, then the foil stuff alone would be plenty. If you want to maintain a constant temp like your house, then you obviously want it a litltle more efficient.

I'd probably put a layer of dowboard on the walls and then cover it with the FBF foil insulation if I were going to do it. That would up the R rating, hopefully prevent moisture problems, and you'd have the fire resistance of the foil.

But I'll shut up now and see if somebody posts that has actually done it before and knows what they're doing:D
 
:D haha you guys are great. im not concearned about keeping my shop at a constant temp like my house. i just want to cool it down/ heaat it up for the coupla hours im out there. and as i only have a 1 brick forge and only do stock removal the bigger forge idea is moot:D but a good idea none the less! thanks again to everyone who posted.
jon
 
I don't have air conditioning, but it rarely gets real hot here in the NW. Usually my hottest days are 75 degrees F, with low humidity. It's all the rain in the spring, winter and fall that I have to deal with.
 
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