Insuring blades while mailing

[shaugrud]

Hi, I was wondering how much to insure blades for when mailing them for heat treating, and in the event, they're lost how can you prove their value to the carrier? How can I document the cost of my labor to produce the blades? Thank you in advance.

 

[Tom Lewis]

Others may have a different experience, but once a knife I shipped to a customer had USPS insurance. The package was smashed and the knife was damaged. I filed a claim and found out real quick the USPS was not going to be responsible. They denied my claim and said the package would be destroyed in 30 days. I was lucky to get the damaged package back. I no longer insure anything with the USPS.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Good question.
I just recently went through this with a large batch of blades.
I Just insured them to the cost of replacing the steel.


*I grind post heat treat so the "only" time I have in them is profiling, and drilling hand!e holes.

I figured insuring to potential worth (over 10k) would not be right either, so I went low, with just steel replacement cost.

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Others may have a different experience, but once a knife I shipped to a customer had USPS insurance. The package was smashed and the knife was damaged. I filed a claim and found out real quick the USPS was not going to be responsible. They denied my claim and said the package would be destroyed in 30 days. I was lucky to get the damaged package back. I no longer insure anything with the USPS.

Hearing this over and over again is an eye opener

 

[shaugrud]

Good question.
I just recently went through this with a large batch of blades.
I Just insured them to the cost of replacing the steel.


*I grind post heat treat so the "only" time I have in them is profiling, and drilling hand!e holes.

I figured insuring to potential worth (over 10k) would not be right either, so I went low, with just steel replacement cost.

Yeah, I was told at the Post Office that I'd need to be able to prove the value of the package to be compensated. On a smaller order I guess it wouldn't be too big of a deal, but I have about a week's labor involved with this order so I'm a little concerned. I really appreciate you guy's input. Thanks again!

 

[shaugrud]

Hearing this over and over again is an eye opener

Thanks for the response. I wonder if UPS or Fed Ex would be a better option?

 

[Joshua Fisher]

Any shipper will tell you that they won’t cover labor costs, you will need to be able to show invoices to prove cost or value. I’ve insured based off weight so if a $20 bar of steel weights 2 pounds it cost $10 per pound and if I then ship 22 pounds of that material then I could likely insure it for $220 but you’ll need to show invoices to prove that cost. Honestly I mainly only worry about insuring finished knives but only if I’m shipping either a lot of knives to a dealer or a very high value knife and you will still need a invoice or proof of payment from a customer to show value.

 

[shaugrud]

Any shipper will tell you that they won’t cover labor costs, you will need to be able to show invoices to prove cost or value. I’ve insured based off weight so if a $20 bar of steel weights 2 pounds it cost $10 per pound and if I then ship 22 pounds of that material then I could likely insure it for $220 but you’ll need to show invoices to prove that cost. Honestly I mainly only worry about insuring finished knives but only if I’m shipping either a lot of knives to a dealer or a very high value knife and you will still need a invoice or proof of payment from a customer to show value.

Thanks Joshua!

 

[Crag the Brewer]

Any shipper will tell you that they won’t cover labor costs, you will need to be able to show invoices to prove cost or value. I’ve insured based off weight so if a $20 bar of steel weights 2 pounds it cost $10 per pound and if I then ship 22 pounds of that material then I could likely insure it for $220 but you’ll need to show invoices to prove that cost. Honestly I mainly only worry about insuring finished knives but only if I’m shipping either a lot of knives to a dealer or a very high value knife and you will still need a invoice or proof of payment from a customer to show value.

That's why I think bare steel cost is doable to insure to heat treater.
*another good reason to grind after.... Mitigate that cost later to final customer

Or, like Joshua, heat treat Yourself..... If you can.
I cant.


Sending a bunch of finished knives...... Ugh!
I can't imagine the stresses that the big makers go through here, we all read their stories.....


Another big Thank You, to everyone who do so much for All of us in all sorts of various ways!!!

 

[Joshua Fisher]

That's why I think bare steel cost is doable to insure to heat treater.
*another good reason to grind after.... Mitigate that cost later to final customer

Or, like Joshua, heat treat Yourself..... If you can.
I cant.


Sending a bunch of finished knives...... Ugh!
I can't imagine the stresses that the big makers go through here, we all read their stories.....


Another big Thank You, to everyone who do so much for All of us in all sorts of various ways!!!

I just shipped a 140 knife order to a dealer, I always use UPS for those bigger orders and insure the package for the full value that the customer paid, it’s easy for me to show the final invoice to prove value for an insurance claim. The key I think is to pay for the store to pack the order, this order i literally brought in the knives in padded cases or in plastic with blade covers and they wrapped everything and boxed it to ship, with high value stuff they double box. If you do that and pay for the store to pack the order they guarantee the package so if there’s any damage or it gets lost they won’t fight the claim, if you box it with a prepaid label then you may have to fight the insurance. My local store is great for big orders though, this last one ended up being two boxes insured for over 20,000 total and they made sure to pack everything carefully and ask any questions they needed to make sure everything was in order and if it came down to submitting a claim there wouldn’t be any issues. The packages arrived with no problems, I’ve shipped several larger order this same way and not had issues. UPS insurance is more than usps but the total shipping cost is less than shipping a bunch of smaller packages to individual customers and I trust the local ups store more than a government run post office

 

[Horsewright]

Others may have a different experience, but once a knife I shipped to a customer had USPS insurance. The package was smashed and the knife was damaged. I filed a claim and found out real quick the USPS was not going to be responsible. They denied my claim and said the package would be destroyed in 30 days. I was lucky to get the damaged package back. I no longer insure anything with the USPS.

Ya fell for their tricks Tom. USPS will ALWAYS deny the claim first time and then will pay it on appeal. Ask me how I know and know and know and know....... Heck we even had one with their own Postal Inspector's report attached saying that it was stolen by a Postal employee and they denied it on the first go and paid on appeal. We, as company policy, will not ship anything over $100 through USPS if we can help it. We do have some customers that are EXTREMELY rural and so we have to ship USPS to them but otherwise over $100 no USPS.

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Dave beat me to it.
USPS always will deny the claim right off the bat. When you file an appeal they will usually pay. UPS is much better and easier ... but the process in not fast either way. DON'T accept NO as the answer. They operate on the assumption that you will just say, "OK" and walk away.

Things that will make shipping and claims work better:
Save all documentation - Receipt's for materials and services - wood, steel, HT, knife parts, sheaths, stabilizing, etc. Make sure you have a copy of the invoice and sdalesdetails. A copy of your payment page from whatever source you use for finances is wise to prove the true value.

Take many photos of the items from different aspects and close ups of the handle and blade. Be sure to take photos of the well packed box.

Pack you items in bomb proof packages. I use flat rate boxes and make them double or tripple walled by cutting down extra boxes. Glue the new insides with wood glue and glue the bottom flaps shut. I often put a 1/4" plywood top and bottom board in the box. Any voids or extra space is packed with something fairly rigid like Styrofoam or free handle blocks. Try and avoid bubble wrap, as it shifts around. When all is solidly packed, glue the top shut. Wrap the box in all directions with reinforced shipping tape.

Put bright red FRAGILE stickers on the box on all sides. A 500 count roll is $10 on Amazon. Handlers and drivers will see that and perhaps not throw the box on and off the truck like a bale of hay.

Using these methods, I have hardly ever had a damaged box and of the two claims in 30 years, I got paid.

 

[Natlek]

Dave beat me to it.
USPS always will deny the claim right off the bat. When you file an appeal they will usually pay. UPS is much better and easier ... but the process in not fast either way. DON'T accept NO as the answer. They operate on the assumption that you will just say, "OK" and walk away.

Things that will make shipping and claims work better:
Save all documentation - Receipt's for materials and services - wood, steel, HT, knife parts, sheaths, stabilizing, etc. Make sure you have a copy of the invoice and sdalesdetails. A copy of your payment page from whatever source you use for finances is wise to prove the true value.

Take many photos of the items from different aspects and close ups of the handle and blade. Be sure to take photos of the well packed box.

Pack you items in bomb proof packages. I use flat rate boxes and make them double or tripple walled by cutting down extra boxes. Glue the new insides with wood glue and glue the bottom flaps shut. I often put a 1/4" plywood top and bottom board in the box. Any voids or extra space is packed with something fairly rigid like Styrofoam or free handle blocks. Try and avoid bubble wrap, as it shifts around. When all is solidly packed, glue the top shut. Wrap the box in all directions with reinforced shipping tape.

Put bright red FRAGILE stickers on the box on all sides. A 500 count roll is $10 on Amazon. Handlers and drivers will see that and perhaps not throw the box on and off the truck like a bale of hay.

Using these methods, I have hardly ever had a damaged box and of the two claims in 30 years, I got paid.

Here I can send empty box via post and ensure it at a value that I choose. In principle, nobody cares what's inside . If it is lost, I get that amount. Of course, the insurance is higher at a higher value of package . If the goods are damaged, I get the sum for which I insured it. No one estimates whether the true value is that much or not . I don't know why it's so complicated over there?

 

[Joshua Fisher]

Here I can sand empty box via post and ensure it at a value that I choose. In principle, nobody cares what's inside . If it is lost, I get that amount. Of course, the insurance is higher at a higher value of package . If the goods are damaged, I get the sum for which I insured it. No one estimates whether the true value is that much or not . I don't know why it's so complicated over there?

Larger population perhaps? More people trying to ship rocks over here then making insurance claims? Could be a number of things, population size is often the biggest factor though in what works in one place versus another

 

[Natlek]

Larger population perhaps? More people trying to ship rocks over here then making insurance claims? Could be a number of things, population size is often the biggest factor though in what works in one place versus another

Hm...So what if they ship rocks ? If the one who took the responsibility to deliver it, and really delivered it to the address , why does he will care what's inside? If he loses it , well then he has to pay .....rocks

 

[SwissHeritageCo]

I've had a fair few customers go out of their way to request me not to insure their knife when mailing back to them, as if it puts a target on the package.

 

[shaugrud]

Dave beat me to it.
USPS always will deny the claim right off the bat. When you file an appeal they will usually pay. UPS is much better and easier ... but the process in not fast either way. DON'T accept NO as the answer. They operate on the assumption that you will just say, "OK" and walk away.

Things that will make shipping and claims work better:
Save all documentation - Receipt's for materials and services - wood, steel, HT, knife parts, sheaths, stabilizing, etc. Make sure you have a copy of the invoice and sdalesdetails. A copy of your payment page from whatever source you use for finances is wise to prove the true value.

Take many photos of the items from different aspects and close ups of the handle and blade. Be sure to take photos of the well packed box.

Pack you items in bomb proof packages. I use flat rate boxes and make them double or tripple walled by cutting down extra boxes. Glue the new insides with wood glue and glue the bottom flaps shut. I often put a 1/4" plywood top and bottom board in the box. Any voids or extra space is packed with something fairly rigid like Styrofoam or free handle blocks. Try and avoid bubble wrap, as it shifts around. When all is solidly packed, glue the top shut. Wrap the box in all directions with reinforced shipping tape.

Put bright red FRAGILE stickers on the box on all sides. A 500 count roll is $10 on Amazon. Handlers and drivers will see that and perhaps not throw the box on and off the truck like a bale of hay.

Using these methods, I have hardly ever had a damaged box and of the two claims in 30 years, I got paid.

Thanks for the info, Stacy. I'm using your packing tips now.

 

[12345678910]

Good quality packaging is the first step in self insurance

I really like Karl B Andersen's packaging.

He has a video

I also do photos of the packaging process, I also preglue up the cardboard and or wood boxes.

It takes more time, but I'm no amazon.

The photos of packaging and the receipt/tracking number proved my case and I did get the insurance payout the one time I claimed.


There is an insurance company that advertises in Blade Magazine - someone here uses them and recommended it.