Integral bolsters - Are they stronger?

N

Nursie

Joined
Sep 28, 2005
Messages
98
Hi All,
Looking at the Buck 301 and the 110 series they seem to have bolsters integral to the liners
These are either stainless steel or brass.
I'm guessing that they are more expensive to make as they don't seem to appear on any Chinese made Bucks

But....
Are they stronger?
I'm curious as to whether they make for a more resilient knife as the pivot pins pass through a thicker single plate of metal

Ok chaps, let the discussions begin!
Thanks for your help
Take care
Graham
 
The smart people will surely set the record straight, but I think brass is a softer metal than Nickel silver. So a brass liner with a nickel silver bolster soldered on would be stronger than an integral brass bolster/liner. Maybe I have that relationship backwards. Of course it all rides on how well the bolster has been soldered onto the liner.
 
I'm getting really interested in the Buck 301 with steel bolsters
Just curious, is it likely to be tougher than an equally sized Case for example?

Thanks for your quick reply
take care
Graham
 
"Are they stronger?
I'm curious as to whether they make for a more resilient knife as the pivot pins pass through a thicker single plate of metal"

The bolster is not necessarily thicker. It is just a single piece with the liner. You definitely won't lose a bolster on a knife with integral bolsters. ;) I've seen a couple knives that had lost a bolster but it doesn't seem to be common. And it never happened to any of my knives. If it did happen, I think any of the major American knife companies would warranty repair/replace.

"soldered on"

There's more than one way of attaching bolsters. For example, they are pinned and pressed at GEC. Forward to 8:45 in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeHWa5jyO74
 
That clip was interesting

The main reason for asking is although I like the 301 rather than the blade shape of the 371
Here in the UK they retail at about $60 at the moment, compared to $38 for the Chinese made 371
As you'll appreciate that doesn't make them as affordable as in the USA
Thanks again for your guidance
Take care
Graham
 
I don't know about the off shore ones, never heard of pivot pin / bolster issues with the Buck 301.
 
I'm not concerned about problems
I've never lost a bolster from a knife
Just wondered if the steel bolstered 301 was slightly more robust than other versions
 
Don't see the steel bolster version on the Buck website. I wonder if it is a non-USA market only item.

I have both a 301 and 371. There is no difference in any of the blade shapes/profiles. Both seem to hold an edge equally well. I've never had to do anything but strop to maintain a hair popping sharp edge.
 
afishhunter said:
Don't see the steel bolster version on the Buck website. I wonder if it is a non-USA market only item.

I have both a 301 and 371. There is no difference in any of the blade shapes/profiles. Both seem to hold an edge equally well. I've never had to do anything but strop to maintain a hair popping sharp edge.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this
The 301 spey blade looks larger and the clip looks slightly wider on the net, perhaps it's just an abberation caused by seeing them on a screen
Thanks for putting me straight
take care
Graham
 
jrawk said:
The smart people will surely set the record straight, but I think brass is a softer metal than Nickel silver. So a brass liner with a nickel silver bolster soldered on would be stronger than an integral brass bolster/liner. Maybe I have that relationship backwards. Of course it all rides on how well the bolster has been soldered onto the liner.
Click to expand...

Having hand-worked both, nickle silver is noticeably tougher than brass. But, if you're using your pocket knife in a manner where this even begins to matter, then you're doing something very wrong.
 
boy&hisdogs said:
Having hand-worked both, nickle silver is noticeably tougher than brass. But, if you're using your pocket knife in a manner where this even begins to matter, then you're doing something very wrong.
Click to expand...

This.

Steel > Nickle > Brass, integral is king, and none of that should matter.
 
For about 7 or so years I milled bolsters into the frame from steel barstock. Unquestionably very strong.
About 3 years ago I began " silver brazing" the bolsters on. This is a form of high temp soldering done with
oxy acetylene. It can be ground on to blue and very nearly red without any effect on the bolsters. The best
thing in doing it this way is the liners stay very flat without the necessary tweaking of a milled frame. I am absolutley
sure I will never look back.
Ken.
 
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I think the only reason this should matter is aesthetics. The kind of brass that you get in bars is a different alloy than the kind you get in sheets. Your brass liners and bolsters will be different colors with the liner being darker and duller, and the bolster lighter and brighter.

If the whole side of the knife is milled out of a single bar of brass, then of course everything will match and be seamless. This matters on a $400 custom but not on a $40 Buck. Go to the buck website and play around with the customization to see what everything will look like, and pick whichever one just looks right. I don't know if it's just me, but there's always one color/finish to nearly everything that jumps out a mile ahead of the others.

http://www.buckknives.com/custom-knife-shop/
 
Buck started making its USA made 301 stockmen with three springs and SS liners in 1990. This is the end view of a NS bolster and SS liner cut thru the pivot pin. Only very over-sharpened knife was used in making of this photo.



They currently make 301s with bolsters and liners as a single piece. Even the shield is a pillar of cast metal with the plastic scale forced over it for a tight bond. Buck stockmen after 1990 that do not have rivets on the scales have stubs of plastic melt 'smeared' in tapered rivet holes and are visible with all blades open. As stated I have never seen or handled a 300 series stockman with bolsters parting from the liners. I have seen where people have used bad techniques and equipment and have ruined a bolster by beating out a pivot pin and ruining the pivot pin hole. 300


View of pillar shield and the outside plastic 'rivet' hole which is heat smeared to form rivet head against liner in blade well. The spring pin is proud on both sides of the knife


THE only exception to this Buck Stockman design after 1990 were a few years production of the large 307 Wrangler stockman which was made under contract for Buck by Camillus using brass liners and NS bolsters.
 
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Nursie said:
Hi All,
Looking at the Buck 301 and the 110 series they seem to have bolsters integral to the liners
These are either stainless steel or brass.
I'm guessing that they are more expensive to make as they don't seem to appear on any Chinese made Bucks

But....
Are they stronger?
I'm curious as to whether they make for a more resilient knife as the pivot pins pass through a thicker single plate of metal

Ok chaps, let the discussions begin!
Thanks for your help
Take care
Graham
Click to expand...

For those of you familiar with manufacturing paradigms, Buck adopted "lean manufacturing" in the late 80's or so. The term comes from Womack's book, "Lean thinking".
https://www.amazon.com/Lean-Thinking-Corporation-Revised-Updated/dp/0743249275
It's based on the "Toyota Production System", a set of tools that Toyota uses to reduce cost and improve quality.

One of the things Lean teaches is to design your product for efficient manufacturing.
The 300 series knives made in-house by Buck were redesigned for improved ease of manufacturing. That's why three springs: you don't have to crink the blades. Crinking is a time consuming and finicky step. So removing it saves cost.

That's also the reason for the integral bolsters (and integral shield on the black 301). Fewer separate parts reduces the cost.

So the integral bolsters may be stronger, but that's not why they are designed that way.
 
Thanks for all your responses chaps
I think you've just about sorted it for me in my mind
One of the reasons for asking comes under the heading of what my wife calls my "curse"
She says that I am cursed with having an "enquiring mind "
So times I really just "need to" know the answer so badly
And this is the ideal place to get help with my affliction
Thanks again
Take care
Graham
 
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