Interested in damascus steel

S

Shann

Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
5,250
Most of my knife interests have been toward Himalayan Imports stuff and some single blade folders. I have been looking at some damascus blades and some I think are beautiful and some I think are too busy.

Is it a specific "kind" of steel like vg-10 or 1095, or can it be anything, just done in a specific way? Is it a usable blade or just decorative.

Is it possible to get a decent example for a good price.
 
Um, i'm no expert on the subject but damascus is most certainly not just one kind of steel - it is 2 (or more) different steels "sandwiched" together, forged and twisted many times so beautiful pattern develops. If it was just one type of steel you'd never really notice the pattern anyway :)
 
My limited understanding is that damascus steel was/is a combination of low and high carbon steel that has been welded together in a forge either to form random or specific patterns (hence pattern welded steel) and designs by twisting and folding the steel repeatedly. The steel billets are heated and hammered together using borax as a flux (probably many other materials can be a flux as well) which bonds the two metals. Sometimes a third metal may be added for color enhancement, or even premade chunks inserted which will later show up as highlights, even text or pictures, when the material is cut open, ground, etched and polished.
Things used to make damascus that I have read about over the years include: bridge cables, brake cable, chains and wires, chainsaw blades, leaf springs, concrete rebars, I beams, meteroite. Accent and 3rd materials: bronze, gold, silver.

Originally it was first seen by Europeans in the region of Damascus, somewhere around the 2nd Century AD, about 1000 years after the earliest advent of very low carbon steel, almost like wrought iron. The twisting and folding was probably done originally to even out impurities and strengths of the two steels but also became an aesthetic feature as well. These blades were for a short time of superior strength than the European blades, at least until the bladesmiths in Europe were able to improve their furnaces and refining processes. Japan also began some welded steel development maybe somewhere around 1000AD, possibly independently.

Eventually pattern welded steel came to other areas and were given other names, but the term Damascus sort of stuck.
 
Pattern-welded steel
Folded steel
Damascus
Wootz


All different stuff....


see the can-o-worms you opened up?

:D



Prices (for raw materials - from a knifemaker's point of view) can vary from as low as $4/inch to as high as $45+/inch and can be made from everything 'Twisted Bits' mentioned as well as stainless steel and others.

Like attending a chili-cookoff......there's hundreds of different recipes. How it's made can have wildly different outcomes in pattern, colors, contrast, and even performance.

If you're interested....try to find a less expensive production damascus knife first - or sample some of your friends' work to start. Patterns can grow on ya.....or rub ya the wrong way.
 
2 twisted bits

As I understand things you are talking about called Farand:

"Al-Biruni states “this was the method used in Harat and gave two different qualities of steel. One was the result of melting components `equally so that they become united in the mixing operation and no component can be differentiated or seen independently...such steel is suitable for files or similar tools. The second quality was obtained if the degree of melting of the wrought and cast iron was different for each substance `and thus the intermixing between both components is not complete, and their parts are shifted so that each of their two colors can be seen by the naked eye and it is called firind “ (Al-Hassan and Hill, 1986, 77).
Firind is translated either as damascus (Allan, 1979, 77)
or pattern (Al-2Hassan,and Hill, 1986, 254). "

And Wootz and Bulat are different things:

http://home.att.net/~moltenmuse/index.htm

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I have to admit I havent heard of the term Farand. I left engineering a long time ago and never really understood the crystalline structure or learned the history of steel development. The steel I'm referring to was made in billet form and pounded/welded together in a forge from billets made in India which I think were called by the English as "Wootz" ingots, they were not poured together; that is if I remember correctly. Is farand what is also called 'crucible steel'?
 
fascinating article, kickaha - thanks for the link.

And for the others too, guys.
 
Daniel Koster said:
Pattern-welded steel
Folded steel
Damascus
Wootz


All different stuff....


see the can-o-worms you opened up?

:D



Prices (for raw materials - from a knifemaker's point of view) can vary from as low as $4/inch to as high as $45+/inch and can be made from everything 'Twisted Bits' mentioned as well as stainless steel and others.

Like attending a chili-cookoff......there's hundreds of different recipes. How it's made can have wildly different outcomes in pattern, colors, contrast, and even performance.

If you're interested....try to find a less expensive production damascus knife first - or sample some of your friends' work to start. Patterns can grow on ya.....or rub ya the wrong way.
Click to expand...

What are some less expensive yet still good quality production damascus knives?
 
ttt for decent production damascus at a decent price. somebody suggested the Russel Gent's Hunter?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top