Interesting Article on Taylor/Schrade

To put a different spin on an old saying:........"One man's treasure is another man's trash."
Proof positive that there is money to be made in the trash business.

Someone once said something to this effect:
" There is almost no product that one man can make, that another man who is willing to cut corners cannot make cheaper. The person who considers price only when purchasing is that man's lawful prey."
 
Upstream,

From reading this article and some of the past post it appears to me that this company or person has worked his entire life and started with nothing and has become very successful. I have read that over the years they have dealt in many U.S.A. made knives and imported knives at gun and knife shows. I think we should give credit to people that work hard to be successful. I have personally never met Mr. Taylor but while I have attended some shows and only heard positive things concerning his dealings with anyone he encountered.
 
I managed a cutlery store in the 1980s and up until 1992. I saw a lot of stuff made by Taylor and sold some of it. I did not like to stock low end merchandise in my stores, but a certain amount is necessary for price points, but what I found with the Taylor merchandise I saw and sold, was that it seemed to be poorly made and in a word, "cheap." That is what prompted me to put the quote I did in my previous post.
We had more defects with the Taylor merchandise than other brands, in spite of the fact that we sold a lot more of the other brands. Even compared to other import brands there were far more returns on the Taylor products than other brands, like Kershaw, Al Mar or even the imported Gerbers (there were a few then), defects from these companies were so rare as to be almost unheard of and were rapidly replaced by the factory. With Taylor there was no warranty. As I recall, we even had problems getting replacements on items that were shipped to us defective.

Mr Taylor may have worked hard and built his business and made his millions. However, as one who has done business with him in the past, I prefer not to do business with him again.

This is my opinion based on my experience. Your opinion and experience may be different.

Dale
 
Dale ..If infact Taylor dose this kind of business we may just see Schrade in the USA sooner rather than later....Another old saying "You can fool some of the people some of the time......." That would pretty much some up my hopes. Or maybe..........not. Then the Schrade knives you hold today,are like Loveless or D'holder in comparison , tomorrow. I'm keeping my fingers crossed either way. The part I have trouble with is, if Schrade..Taylor ..announced tomorrow they were ideed moving opperations back to US soil,wouldn't the Chirade knives still be a part of the complete collection. As distatseful as it is I keep coming up with the same answer. How do you feel about that?...THX ...Michael
 
Michael.....
I see where you are going with that.........it is indeed a distressing thought, that the Chirade/chitaylor or what ever you may call them, are indeed a part of Schrade history, (assuming of course that he doesn't run the brand in the ground and kill it).
We could view it as a bad part of the family history......the uncle who went to prison, or a cousin who used to be a hooker....etc. Just an embarrassing part of family history no one talks about in polite company. :o
 
Whether or not one considers the Taylor-made Schrades as part of a continuum within Schrade history is really a matter of semantics and perception. Schrade mark or not, no one, in fact, will ever think of it as anything other than "Taylor Schrade", which, by its very nature, is NOT the same thing as a Schrade. In order for the stamp and the name to have any significance, there must be some genuine connection with the root and the history behind that name. I can call myself George Washington's great great grandson until I'm blue in the face but if there is no reality behind the claim then its just so much hot air. ( GW had no heirs, by the way, and neither does the Schrade company.)
 
This fellow sounds just like an old fashioned American "bidnessman".

(And that does not mean that I agree with all his business practices.)
 
So how do we define what was to us "Schrade"? Was it the end product of the efforts of Albert and Henry Baer in consolodating three independent privately owned companies into the single privately held Imperial Schrade Corporation? But that would then have to include all the knife companies that came under Baer ownership, would it not? There were indeed four companies, not three ultimately controlled by the Baer family. The fourth survives still.

Or was it the continuation of production from what Imperial Schrade considered it's founding year, 1904 to it's end of operations in 2004? But the people who designed the knives and were the most proficient cutlers, and the long term managers of the company scarcely missed a beat in founding and starting up production of the Walden Knife Company, AKA Canal Street Cutlery.

Since we include Imperial, Schrade, and Ulster as "Schrades" for our collector interest purposes, and include the products of those companies before the acquisition by the Baers, Schrade actually was begun in 1874, the root year of Walden Knife Company which became Ulster which became a Baer holding in 1941. Or began in 1917 when Imperial Knife Company was established by the Mirando brothers. Or in 1876 when Charles Sherwood convertd a grain mill in Camillus, NY into a cutlery company? Do we include the work of George Schrade prior to 1904? After he left Schrade Cutlery in 1910? What about George Schrade Knife Company knives made under ownership of Boker after 1956? And what of Kingston Cutlery?

The fact remains that Stewart Taylor bought not the Imperial Schrade Corporation, or any other predecessor company, but the names of the knives and companies. Stewert Taylor's company does not manufacture anything that I am aware of, but is rather an importer of goods made in China and possibly elsewhere. If we are to in any fashion include his "product" in the legacy of Schrade, then we must trace the beginning to the 1865 Bodenheim, Meyer, and Kastor of New York City, importers of guns, cutlery, and hardware from Belgium, England, and Germany. No wait. Henry Bodenheim was in business long before that in Vicksburg Mississippi. (Henry Baer called him "Grand Dad"). Oh, nope, we have to go back to a small village in Italy where the Mirando family were cottage industry cutlers for many generations.

IF Schrade still exists, it is only as an empty shell of a corporation listed on court documents as being in receivership. It has no assets, no facilities, no employees and produces no knives. The only knives today being produced directly by Schrade cutlers are being made with the CSC tangstamp, and possibly the Camillus tangstamp depending on your point of view. No real Schrade knives are today being made in China, only poor copies which, IMHO, are not included in the lineage any more than the knives made by Bear and Son, United, or any other company using Schrade patterns and trademarks. They are bastids, not Schrades.

Codger
 
I never could get the Taylor article to load properly, so I'm not sure just what it said, but I was able to read all of Codger's post and I'm pretty much in agreement with his opinion and assessment. Now in my opinion, the name and trademarks of Schrade AFTER 2004 are dead and gone, but the spirit of Schrade still lives in the Canal Street Cutlery building in Ellenville. I think they will claw their way back to a place of prominance and respect in the cutlery industry....at least I hope so.

Paul
 
To all who are having difficulty accessing the link to the article sited by MontanaSteelMan: the document is a pdf file and I believe you must have the Adobe Reader application installed on your computer to open it. Hope this helps. Here's a link to the Adobe website where you can download the reader, which comes in handy for other pdf files as well.

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html


John
 
As discussed in a recent thread,SMKW is now reproducing the old tang stamps,marked USA made.
As Mr. Levine said- exact reproductions,not marked as reproductions,and intended to deceive the buyer are counterfeits.
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These are already being sold on eBay.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6623199029&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1



The seller claims his distributor portrayed these as new-old stock found in the Schrade factory inventory.

I've also seen the stockman listed with no information that would inform the bidder that it wasn't made in Ellenville.

I don't care if these are quality knives,made by Camillus or Bear,to me they are counterfeits. Wait until they produce more with Delrin sawcut scales, un-etchedhigh-carbon steel blades,and wood-grain boxes.
Do you think that the majority of Schrade collectors will be able to tell the difference?
Ron
 
relodr36 said:
Do you think that the majority of Schrade collectors will be able to tell the difference?
Ron

Ron, I don't think that Taylor is making knives for Schrade collectors or has any interest in that very tiny segment of the market. All he is doing is capitalizing on the cachet of the Schrade name, earned by Schrade's long product history, to sell to new and uninitiated buyers.
 
Here is an illustration of my point using a Sharpfinger pattern.

Both knives have New York Knife Company tangstamps. Are they a pattern ever used by NYKC? New York Knife Company went under in the 1930's, and some of the I.P. was sold. These knives were made on contract for the owner of the I.P. by Schrade. Regardless of what the tangstamps say, they are Schrade knives. Likewise, regardless of what the tangstamps on the chitaylors say, they are Dalian Lifeng (or Yangjiang Pu Te, or Shenzhen Maxhao, or Yangjiang Yijian) knives copying a Schrade pattern, not a Schrade. Unless the Schrade Cutlery Company, in one of it's several personas is restarted, there will never again be a true Schrade knife made.


Codger
 
redshanks said:
Ron, I don't think that Taylor is making knives for Schrade collectors or has any interest in that very tiny segment of the market. All he is doing is capitalizing on the cachet of the Schrade name, earned by Schrade's long product history, to sell to new and uninitiated buyers.

Redshanks,
I wasn't bitching about Taylor,but about SMKW.
You're right,SMKW wouldn't fool experienced Schrade collectors but what about someone who,hasn't spent a lot of hours soaking up info from this forum,decides he wants to start collecting Schrades and build a collection?
Taylor,at least,is marking the boxes with his name and he hasn't started reproducing the old tang stamps (at least I'm not aware of it).
Ron
 
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