Interesting finding

J

JWBirch

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So, my ASH-LE comes in at 15oz. even, while my much thinner Skinny ASH comes in at 15.8oz.

The LE has a full height flat grind, while the Skinny has a convex 3/5 saber grind, accounting for some of the weight.

I wonder if the G-10 on the Skinny is that much heavier than the micarta on the LE. I've noticed that the mag G-10 on my SAR-5 makes that knife feel heavier than it actually is (11.5oz.).
Anyone got an accurate weight on a micarta handled SAR5 for comparison?
 
It's the G-10.
Dang stuff is heavy as a rock...or more

edit- I exaggerated a bit, but it is much heavier
 
Just weighed mine...

Skinny ASH1 in Micarta Mags = 15.1 oz
ASH1LE in Micarta Mags = 15.7 oz
HOGASH1 in micarta Mags = 21.1 oz :eek:

G10 is HEAVY. :p

p.s. - Just for fun, DogFather LE = 17.1 oz :cool:

.
 
That's an interesting question because I think the Skinny ASH-1 is thinner at the spine than an LE/SE.

The handle tang on the Skinny ASH-1 is certainly lighter.

G-10 vs Micarta is weird, some people claim that G-10 is much heavier, but they are both made with ~plastic resins so I doubt the density is very different. Having handled G-10 scales that have been removed from Busses, I don't think there is any way that they could be 0.8 oz heavier than Micarta scales.

What is the difference in the balance point? I imagine that the Skinny ASH-1 would be a lot more blade heavy.
 
Hogwash said:
That's an interesting question because I think the Skinny ASH-1 is thinner at the spine than an LE/SE.


What is the difference in the balance point? I imagine that the Skinny ASH-1 would be a lot more blade heavy.
Click to expand...

From what I understand, the LE is .22ish and the Skinny is .19ish.

I think most of the weight is from the additional blade mass on the Skinny: it is a convex grind which leaves more metal on the blade than flat or concave/hollow grinds, and the grind is only 3/5 height, leaving the blade full .19 thick to the spine.

As expected, the Skinny (G-10) balances about 3/16" forward of the 1st tube fastener, while my LE (micarta) balances right on the tube fastener. That doesn't help much with the G-10/Micarta issue though. I think what we'd need for that is either the exact same knife/grind with different scales, of for someone who'se removed a set of each to weigh them seperately. It shouldn't be too hard to find someone with G-10 and Micarta gripped SAR5s to compare.
 
the exact same knife/grind with different scales
Click to expand...
I can do that with some GW's of identical thickness...

GW LE in satin with snakeskin micarta = 4.6 oz (132 grams)
GW Black Tie in satin with Black G10 = 5.0 oz (142 grams)

The G10 scaled knife is 7.6% heavier and these are SMALL Game Warden Scales. Since the metal in the knives is identical the difference in weight between G10 and Micarta is definitely larger than the 7.6%. The difference in knife weight would be much more on larger magnum scales.

Note that my SkinnyASH1 is lighter than my ASH1LE
 
VoxHog said:
Note that my SkinnyASH1 is lighter than my ASH1LE
Click to expand...

That's a good point, in that metal content within the same run of knives can vary due to the manufacturing process and/or hand-fabrication of the parts.

I should point out that my measurements are on a $40 postal scale, good enough for making home comparisons, but perhaps not regulated well enough to make comparisons across the 'net ;)
 
Hogwash said:
That's an interesting question because I think the Skinny ASH-1 is thinner at the spine than an LE/SE.

The handle tang on the Skinny ASH-1 is certainly lighter.

G-10 vs Micarta is weird, some people claim that G-10 is much heavier, but they are both made with ~plastic resins so I doubt the density is very different. Having handled G-10 scales that have been removed from Busses, I don't think there is any way that they could be 0.8 oz heavier than Micarta scales.

What is the difference in the balance point? I imagine that the Skinny ASH-1 would be a lot more blade heavy.
Click to expand...

G10 is heavier micarta. That is a fact. Besides...Micarta just plain feels better :D Does it make a difference? To some.. No.

To me... Yes. It is significant enough for me that I almost always choose micarta over G10 when given the choice. I am not surprised that the Skinny ASH is more blade heavy than the ASHLE because of the Saber/Convex grind that leaves alot of meat on the blade.
 
JWBirch said:
So, my ASH-LE comes in at 15oz. even, while my much thinner Skinny ASH comes in at 15.8oz.
Click to expand...

VoxHog said:
Just weighed mine...

Skinny ASH1 in Micarta Mags = 15.1 oz
ASH1LE in Micarta Mags = 15.7 oz
Click to expand...

Something isn't right here, if we assume that the two LE's are identical and VoxHog's scale is reading 0.7 oz high, his Skinny ASH-1 with micarta would weigh 14.4 oz compared to JW's 15.8 oz with G-10. That's a 1.4 oz difference from Micarta to G-10.

I think VoxHog might have switched his weights and has a scale that reads 0.1 oz high. That would make it Micarta 15.6 oz vs. 15.8 oz G-10, a 0.2 oz difference which is pretty small.
 
While micarta and g10 are both phenolic resins, micarta is made with either paper, linen, or canvas, and g10 is made with glass, which typically is denser and heavier material to begin with. That probably accounts for some of the weight difference. I also read on either VZ's website or another, that G10 is denser and therefore resistant to higher temperatures than micarta, and les prone to warping or deforming.

Let's also not forget that there are small variations both in the blades that come out of the shop, and in scales/micrometers. There's will probably always be small differences even within the same blades.
 
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I just re-weighed mine with one small modification, I removed the paracord lanyard that was adding 1/10th of an ounce onto my ASH1LE. :p

The Skinny ASH (black coating and black canvas micarta mags)is 15.1 oz (427 grams)
The ASH1LE (satin and tigerhide canvas micarta mags) is 15.6 oz (444 grams)

As far as I know, my digital scale is spot on accurate. My thinner knife weighs less than my thicker knife! :eek::p:)

Given that...
  1. the mass on my ASH1 scales is easily 2x the mass of my GW scales
  2. the G10 scales on my identical GWs weigh 0.4 oz more
  3. it is very reasonable to me that the G10 version of the Skinny ASH could weigh 0.8 to 1.2 ounces more than the same Skinny ASH in Micarta.
 
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You might be right but I have a hard time believing it.

Resin is resin, you can't change it's density very easily unless you add micro balloons or some other filler.

Fiberglass cloth weighs about as much as canvas (or carbon fiber or kevlar). I can't see where all of this extra weight is coming from. If anything I would expect canvas Micarta to weigh more because the resin can saturate the cotton fibers themselves while it can only fill the space between fibers in fiberglass.

It just doesn't make sense to me.
 
When the SAR5s came out I bought 3, a Black/Green G10, a Tan Micarta and a Black Micarta. I compared the weight between G10 and Micarta at that time and found that the G10 was a good bit heavier. This lines up with the weight difference in my Game Wardens from above.

I believe that G10 is a glass based with resin whereas Micarta is a cloth based with resin. The resin in the two is probably very close to the same weight but any given mass of glass certainly weighs more to than an equal mass of cloth, maybe that's the difference. :confused:
 
Fiberglass is glass pulled in to thin fibers.

At some point it was discovered that there is a minimum crack size that will propagate in glass. Fiber glass is made with a diameter smaller than that minimum size, so the fact that the fiber is in one piece guarantees that it has no cracks that will propagate, then the resin ties them together and distributes stresses among all of the fibers.

Plain glass is rarely used for a structure, it is too easy to have a catastrophic failure.
 
VoxHog said:
I believe that G10 is a glass based with resin whereas Micarta is a cloth based with resin. The resin in the two is probably very close to the same weight but any given mass of glass certainly weighs more to than an equal mass of cloth, maybe that's the difference. :confused:
Click to expand...

I would agree with this, the phenolic resin of micarta and the epoxy resin in G10 are very close in density, but the reinforcing fabrics are probably quite different. Also, most composites are made with the minimum of the resin, as it is typically the expensive component.
 
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