International Deliveries

S

sculver

Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
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I’ve got a guy in Sumatra who wants to buy a couple of my knives. I’m trying to sort out how to get the package to him, since the local post office says that his address looks to be undeliverable. He wants to pay for the knives with a credit card. My credit card processing service says that there should be no problem with me accepting a card from him.

Anyone got any experience, advice about, or horror stories with international shipping?
 
Even though your credit card company told you that it would be okay to take his credit card, you should tell your potential customer that you will not ship the knives for a month after processing the payment. It can take that long for your credit card company to find out whether it is a fraudulent card. Be very careful.
 
I would be a little leery of credit cards. Wire transfer of funds before shipment would be safest. If the buyer seems uneasy about those terms offer to give him references.

Either UPS or FedX should be able to get the shipment to him and you can track it every step of the way. Insure the shipment @ full value, if the buyer declines insurance have him agree he's totally responsible for shipment after you provide a tracking number. I would not accept money orders for payment either.
 
Sculver,

I work for DHL Global Forwarding. If you want to PM me the delivery address info I can email our overseas office and see if they can confirm if it's a good delivery address. I can also check the customs info out for you.

Scott
 
My advice .. no ... I am from Indonesia (Sumatra is one of big island in Indonesia) ... tooooooooo maaannnnyyyyyyy credit card frauds .. Usually the scheme ..they will give you an address of empty house / apt then he pick it up there.
 
any reason he can't use paypal?
 
Lorien said:
any reason he can't use paypal?
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if he used stolen CC, paypal will take out the money back (directly from the seller's bank account) ... Also .. if I am not mistaken (2 years ago) ... Paypal not allowed for certain countries .. for example indonesia coz too many cc theft.

Avoid and run :) that country has no law implicitly .. seriously .. you can do EVERYTHING ... above the law as long as you have money / well connected / "familia" with military / mafia / tycoon.
 
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If the guy is known on the forums and has good reputation, I'd go for it.
If you don't know him, better be safe and ask for a safe payment method (like Western Union).
I buy most of my knives from the USA, with Visa, PayPal or Western Union depending on what the seller asks for.
 
Steve,
I sell knives all over the world to good guys like Flava, but there are some places that I will not deal with, and Indonesia is at the top of the list.
If the guy has verifiable references from other dealers/makers then I would consider taking his ccard, but bank wire transfers are normal and expected by reputable buyers in questionable countries, and they remove all doubt.
I get several emails each month asking to buy goods, ship to China/Indo/Russia/etc, using ccard, overnight shipping.
If you tell him you will only accept bank wire transfers I'll bet you don't hear from him again.
 
The problem may not be a stolen credit card but stolen card numbers. In 2003 I lost $1700 in CC fraud shipping to Indonesia. The card was good, the numbers were stolen. It takes about 5 weeks for the dispute to come through. Then you are out the knife, moneym and chargeback fees.

I ship only to the billing address of the card holder and demand the CVV number off the back. If it's Indonesia, I add that the knife will be shipped 6 weeks after the card has cleared and chargeback time is over. That means about 12 weeks, or never. You are taking a very big chance.

BTW, US Secret Service handles CC fraud. Indonesia has few laws against it. Also declare the customs value for what it is. If they have asked you to obtain cell phones or other things, it's most assuredly fraud.

Good luck,

Gene
 
I've used bank wire transfers and they are bombproof.
 
I apologize for he delayed acknowledgement of the replies. I have been at the Hammer-In in Washington, AR. I took my laptop, but couldn’t get logged on to the forums for some reason.

Thanks for all of the comments. I really don't expect to make a deal with the guy in Sumatra. But, the query from him pointed out to me that I am not up to speed on all of the risks, and requirements, of international sales and delivery. There are a lot of knife makers who have no experience with international sales and will eventually be contacted by someone out of country about a knife purchase. Besides the risk of CC fraud, customs paperwork is required for many imported items. I haven’t found this topic addressed in any of the forums. It would be great if this thread could serve as a guide for those who have no experience with international trade.

I would like to see some more information shared on this thread by people who are knowledgeable about international sales and shipping. Where do you go to find out about each country’s regulations and what paperwork is necessary for your shipments? How do you arrange the financial transaction?

I would also like to hear from people who regularly buy knives out their own country. What do you expect from the seller in terms of payment options, shipping methods and delivery timelines?

Thank you in advance for sharing your expertise and expectations.
 
sculver said:
I would like to see some more information shared on this thread by people who are knowledgeable about international sales and shipping. Where do you go to find out about each country’s regulations and what paperwork is necessary for your shipments? How do you arrange the financial transaction?

I would also like to hear from people who regularly buy knives out their own country. What do you expect from the seller in terms of payment options, shipping methods and delivery timelines?

Thank you in advance for sharing your expertise and expectations.
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It varies by country. In many cases, there are little or no sources of information.

Credit card fraud is rampant. Even if the transaction goes through, the card can then be found to be stolen, or the payer can dispute the transaction, and the seller is screwed. This can happen months after the transaction has taken place.

I think that the best way to accept payment from overseas is by bank wire transfer. Of course, if the buyer can provide references from reputable makers and dealers, then there should be no problem. Do not fail to check the references; anyone can drop the name of a maker.

In addition to fraud, many countries have customs issues. Many countries will add customs charges for a knife, being some percentage of the purchase price--adding a considerable surcharge. If not receipt is included, cusatoms can delay delivery for months--and who knows where the knife is sitting in the meantime, and under what conditions.


I know that this sounds bad for most of us who live outside the US--and it is bad. I personally will not have a custom knife shipped overseas--when an ordered knife is ready, I pay (I do have good references) and then ask the maker or seller to hold it until I get to the states, or to ship to someone who is visiting. It adds a considerable amount of trouble to my little hobby, but not as much trouble as having makers and sellers cheated.
 
sculver said:
I apologize for he delayed acknowledgement of the replies. I have been at the Hammer-In in Washington, AR. I took my laptop, but couldn’t get logged on to the forums for some reason.

Thanks for all of the comments. I really don't expect to make a deal with the guy in Sumatra. But, the query from him pointed out to me that I am not up to speed on all of the risks, and requirements, of international sales and delivery. There are a lot of knife makers who have no experience with international sales and will eventually be contacted by someone out of country about a knife purchase. Besides the risk of CC fraud, customs paperwork is required for many imported items. I haven’t found this topic addressed in any of the forums. It would be great if this thread could serve as a guide for those who have no experience with international trade.

I would like to see some more information shared on this thread by people who are knowledgeable about international sales and shipping. Where do you go to find out about each country’s regulations and what paperwork is necessary for your shipments? How do you arrange the financial transaction?

I would also like to hear from people who regularly buy knives out their own country. What do you expect from the seller in terms of payment options, shipping methods and delivery timelines?

Thank you in advance for sharing your expertise and expectations.
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Here is my "foreign frequent buyer" point of view. :)
First, the payment. PayPal and CC are nice from the buyer’s point of view, as they are easy to use. They are risky for the seller though, so I recommend them only when the buyer is known and/or has good reputation.
Other options that I used are bank transfer and Western Union. For bank transfer, the problem is some USA banks don’t use BIC/IBAN numbers for account identification, and this makes the transfer difficult. Western Union is kind of expensive but FAST and SAFE FOR THE SELLER.
I used money orders (their French equivalent) too, works fine, cheaper than Western Union but can take a couple of weeks until the seller gets the order (by snail mail). When he gets the order he can get cash at the post office, so it’s perfectly safe.
Now for the shipping. As a buyer, I used UPS, FedEx and USPS for packages coming from the USA. I will NEVER AGAIN use UPS and FedEx, they are expensive, charge you a $30 fee just for passing the package through the customs, can’t leave the package at the post office if you’re not at home. On the other hand, USPS Express Mail is fast, trackable, and distributed by the local postal services in each country.
The USPS customs form is quite easy to fill. Just mark the object as it is (pocket knife, knife, etc…) and the value. If you mark a low value, make sure the buyer assumes responsibility in case of loss.
It is the BUYER’s responsibility to make sure the object can be legally imported in his country; you don’t have to do nothing about that. You have to make sure you can legally send the knife out of the state. In general, if you can send it interstate in the USA you can send it out of the USA.
I have the chance to be in a country where you can import ANY knife (fixed, folding, auto, balisong etc…) as long as it’s not made of illegal materials (like post-ban elephant ivory).
 
Thanks Flavius; I appreciate your input.

I have some concerns about bank wire transfers. To do that, you will have to give your bank account number, and routing number to the buyer. Doing so gives them the information that they need not only to deposit money into your account, but also to withdraw funds. My wife works for a bank and she asked the bank CFO about wire transfers. He said that using a wire transfer was extremely risky with someone that you do not know. Giving someone your account information puts you in the same situation as has been used in numerous scams. These are the scams where someone says they need your account number to deposit a huge amount of money that they need to secretly get out of their country (or some other reason), and if you will help them they will let you keep some of the money. All they need is your account and routing numbers and they can make withdrawals. The CFO said that even if you had only a small amount of money in your account, it could still be possible for them to withdraw any amount and overdraft the account.
 
sculver said:
Thanks Flavius; I appreciate your input.

I have some concerns about bank wire transfers. To do that, you will have to give your bank account number, and routing number to the buyer. Doing so gives them the information that they need not only to deposit money into your account, but also to withdraw funds. My wife works for a bank and she asked the bank CFO about wire transfers. He said that using a wire transfer was extremely risky with someone that you do not know. Giving someone your account information puts you in the same situation as has been used in numerous scams. These are the scams where someone says they need your account number to deposit a huge amount of money that they need to secretly get out of their country (or some other reason), and if you will help them they will let you keep some of the money. All they need is your account and routing numbers and they can make withdrawals. The CFO said that even if you had only a small amount of money in your account, it could still be possible for them to withdraw any amount and overdraft the account.
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The above surprises me with ALL the rules and restrictions banks have these days in regard to both depositing and withdrawing funds.
Hell, I have difficulty withdrawing money from my own account. :eek: :grumpy: ;)
 
Hi Kevin,

Whether or not the request for funds is processed is up your bank and the security controls that they have in place. You are counting on someone at your bank to question the transaction and contact you for approval. They are not required to do that. You can dispute a transaction on your account, but that does not guarantee that you will get the funds back, especially if YOU gave your account information to that individual. If the transaction originated in the US, there are federal regulations that make it more likely that you will get your money back. If the transaction originated out of country, you are at the mercy of the originating country's guidelines and the banking industry there.
 
Hi Steve.

I have to say that it would be extremely difficult for anyone to withdraw funds form an individual's personnel bank account just by knowing their account number and even their routing number for that matter. And if this did happen it would most likely be the result of bank security regulations not being followed, thus making the bank liable.

Now this would not be the case with credit cards, where security is much more lax.

There's really few if any transactions that are a 100% safe. As with anything you have to weight the risk against reward and make an informed decision you are comfortable with. IMO, anyone who refuses to take on any risk are putting themselves at a huge disadvantage from a financial standpoint. Just my $.02.
 
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Hi Kevin,

You are correct that it is not easy for someone to draw from your bank account. But it is not impossible, according to the bank CFO that I spoke to. Making a withdrawal from someone's bank account electronically is done by using an ACH (Automated Clearing House) transaction. To initiate an ACH, the originator has to get written, verbal or electronic authorization from the account holder. This is where the loophole is in the process. All the originator has to do is to provide something showing that you agreed to the withdrawal by a recording from a telephone conversation, a document with a signature or by presenting something showing that the account holder agreed by checking an “I Agree” button on a web site. All of these things are easy to forge or falsify. Once the transaction is done, it is up to the account holder to prove that they did not give permission for the transaction. I have actually had an ACH drawn on my account by a non-profit organization who claimed to have a recording of me agreeing to make a donation over the phone.

If the unauthorized transaction originated in the US, federal banking laws make it fairly simple to get your money back; after you prove that you did not authorize the transaction. However, if the ACH originated outside the US, the process for recovering the money can be much more complicated and there could be no cooperation at all from the bank where the ACH originated.

Yes, there are risks in most all financial transactions and true is your statement that not taking risks puts you at a disadvantage. I only meant to point out that there are some risks in giving out your account information for wire transfers, for those who were not aware.
 
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