Intr3pid

[INTR3PID]

I live in Kalamazoo county michigan and i am trying to get a fix on the laws here. The knife I want is a Kershaw Shallot but I am worried it is 1/2 inch longer than the states 3 inch limit. Where I am confused is the 3 inch limit because it says you are only violating the law if you plan on using the knife to do something illegal. I have been told that legal purposes are specifically listed (I haven't been able to find them) and if they exist I was wondering what they are. I want to know 1: according to the law, would I be violating the law if I carried a 3 1/2 inch blade 2: if I was carrying a 3 1/2 inch blade and used it to defend myself (I doubt this would ever happen but I just wanna be safe) would I be in legal trouble 3: if I could legally carry this knife am I playing the law too close/ could a police officer confiscate the knife from me? I appreciate input but please make sure you know what you are talking about, I'd hate to end up in jail or with fines because I listened to someone on a blog on the internet.

 

[nopyo]

1: according to the law, would I be violating the law if I carried a 3 1/2 inch blade

Unless they can prove unlawful intent, no. However, if the length of your knife is ever called into question, you've already put yourself in a bad place.

2: if I was carrying a 3 1/2 inch blade and used it to defend myself (I doubt this would ever happen but I just wanna be safe) would I be in legal trouble

Yes.

3: if I could legally carry this knife am I playing the law too close/ could a police officer confiscate the knife from me?

A police officer can confiscate anything. All you can do is ask for a receipt of the confiscation and appeal it at the station after the fact.

*inb4 the move to Laws forum.

 

[CWL]

Intrep3d, are you a minor? If you are, you will also be held to higher standards than if you are a legal adult, particularly on schoolgrounds and other "No Tolerance" areas.

 

[INTR3PID]

thanks guys, yes I am a minor and this thing would never see any school grounds, that's a definite no no.

 

[INTR3PID]

nopyo, can you explain how you know I would be in trouble if I used a 3 1/2 inch blade to defend myself? would that be considered illegal intent? (I don't want anybody getting the wrong idea here, I live in a good area, I just want to get a knife for everyday use but I wanna make sure that if I have it on me I can use it for self defense if the need arises)

 

[glistam]

The law states:

Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife having a blade over 3 inches in length

Source: http://legislature.mi.gov/doc.aspx?mcl-750-226

The bolded text is a strange animal, in that if one were to interpret it literally, it would mean you could carry extremely large, obviously offensive knives so long as there was no criminal intentions. The problem is that police officers sometimes are of the opinion that they are allowed to presume unlawful intentions based on the size alone. I have heard of Michigan officers claim such.

However, it is not likely that would hold up in court. In my searching of Michigan's case law database, I was unable to find a conviction for the carry of a pocket knife solely based on the knife's size. Rather, all cases I found had obvious intentions to commit a criminal act, and it was said criminal behavior or suspicious behavior that lead to the search in the first place. Cops do not walk up to random people and start rifling their pockets (seriously, it's illegal search).

But let's say it does happen, that for one reason or another you attract the suspicions of an officer and get patted down. You're going to get asked why if you have the knife. While technically legal, I would advise you against saying "for self-defense." The reason has to do with cop psychology (long story but if asked I will elaborate). Instead, say that it is for some kind of utilitarian usage, like wood carving or just having one for opening boxes.

If you were to actually use the knife in self-defense, it really is going to be about the use of force and the tons of circumstances surrounding it rather than the knife itself. I should inform you that I was also unable to find a use of a pocket knife in self-defense in the case law database. Knives make very poor defensive items, particularly in the hands of people without actual paid-for knife training. Another long story, but ponder this: If the bad guy has a gun, you die. His own knife, you both die. Unarmed, you go to jail for assault/murder due to excessive force.

 

[marcinek]

Have you asked a local LEO about his or her opinion on the matter? Ultimately, that is what usually matters most.

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

Possession implies intent in most weapon charges. Then the LEO and prosecutor try very hard to get you to admit intent through a series of leading questions.

 

[nopyo]

nopyo, can you explain how you know I would be in trouble if I used a 3 1/2 inch blade to defend myself? would that be considered illegal intent? (I don't want anybody getting the wrong idea here, I live in a good area, I just want to get a knife for everyday use but I wanna make sure that if I have it on me I can use it for self defense if the need arises)

While technically legal, I would advise you against saying "for self-defense." The reason has to do with cop psychology (long story but if asked I will elaborate). Instead, say that it is for some kind of utilitarian usage, like wood carving or just having one for opening boxes.

First of all, this. Never call it a "weapon", a "defensive" anything, nor even a "knife" if you can help it. Always call it a "tool" or, if you have to specify, a "bladed tool".

If the bad guy has a gun, you die. His own knife, you both die. Unarmed, you go to jail for assault/murder due to excessive force.

Second of all, this. If you do use a knife defensively and harm another individual, the amount of time/money/effort spent to keep you out of jail and keep your record clean will bankrupt you.

When you asked if this will get you into "legal trouble", I answered Yes. Technically, defending yourself with an appropriate amount of force is always legal. However, in order to have no "trouble", you'll need to make the right claims and back them up with proof. Stating your claims as "My actions were purely defensive" and "I used the appropriate amount of force" is all good. It's the part where you try to prove those claims that will more than likely ruin your life, especially if you fail to prove those claims. It's just not worth it.

 

[INTR3PID]

First of all, this. Never call it a "weapon", a "defensive" anything, nor even a "knife" if you can help it. Always call it a "tool" or, if you have to specify, a "bladed tool".


Second of all, this. If you do use a knife defensively and harm another individual, the amount of time/money/effort spent to keep you out of jail and keep your record clean will bankrupt you.

When you asked if this will get you into "legal trouble", I answered Yes. Technically, defending yourself with an appropriate amount of force is always legal. However, in order to have no "trouble", you'll need to make the right claims and back them up with proof. Stating your claims as "My actions were purely defensive" and "I used the appropriate amount of force" is all good. It's the part where you try to prove those claims that will more than likely ruin your life, especially if you fail to prove those claims. It's just not worth it.

I see, thanks. Once again, I would probably get struck by lightning before I got in that kind of position, just wanted to get informed.