Intro, and about to buy my first Japanese knife

S

SoleSoul

Joined
Feb 3, 2015
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6
Hi, first post.

I cook as a hobby, and from that I started to be interested in knives. My first chef's knife is Arcos 8" (something like this).
I bought quite some water stones and whetstones in general and learned how to use them well. I sharpen my neighbors' and family's knives to quite good results.

The next step was to make my own knife. I got a piece of spring steel, relaxed, cut and grinded it to shape, and now it waits for me to heat treat and sharpen it to see how it turned out.


I feel that it's time that I get a Japanese santoku knife and I prefer carbon steel. I never had one, and I'll have to order it online so I want to make sure that I'm going for a good one.

The one I thought of is Tojiro Santoku Black 165mm (Here is a picture).
I like the looks of this one (Shimomura) more but I'm not sure about its quality.

What do you think? Is the Tojiro a good introduction to this type of knives?

Thanks
 
Certainly the concept of laminated carbon and stainless steel is a wonderful one but other than that I've had no luck with Japanese kitchen knives. The French (I think, the Europeans for sure) developed the integral forged quillon to ensure that metal fatigue at the blade/grip was minimal. Oriental knives don't feature this. Perhaps the two laminated Japanese knives I bought weren't expensive enough (although they certainly weren't cheap) since they've become increasingly prone to bending (ie metal fatigue) at the hilt some 15 years later. but the early 1950's carbon steel Sabatiers I have are still wonderfully strong and functional.
 
300Six said:
Certainly the concept of laminated carbon and stainless steel is a wonderful one but other than that I've had no luck with Japanese kitchen knives. The French (I think, the Europeans for sure) developed the integral forged quillon to ensure that metal fatigue at the blade/grip was minimal. Oriental knives don't feature this. Perhaps the two laminated Japanese knives I bought weren't expensive enough (although they certainly weren't cheap) since they've become increasingly prone to bending (ie metal fatigue) at the hilt some 15 years later. but the early 1950's carbon steel Sabatiers I have are still wonderfully strong and functional.
Click to expand...


That just doesn't sound right unless the edge has been damaged from cutting hard objects like bone or frozen foods. You can also severely damage a Japanese knife with the common kitchen steel, the blade steel is too hard to be honed in such ways.

FYI, Tojiro is a very good knife brand.
 
Played around with a few of the traditional toijiro's as well as their westernized modern blades and their great for the cost!
 
The problem with the Tojiro you linked to is that the soft iron cladding is extremely reactive, especially after the black kuro-uchi finsh has worn off a bit. This will result in imparting a metallic taste to the food you prepare, as well as turning foods like onions brownish-black. Look elsewhere.

If you want a carbon blade, take a look at the Fujiwara FKH santoku from JCK:

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html#FKH

Rick
 
Pensacola Tiger said:
The problem with the Tojiro you linked to is that the soft iron cladding is extremely reactive, especially after the black kuro-uchi finsh has worn off a bit. This will result in imparting a metallic taste to the food you prepare, as well as turning foods like onions brownish-black. Look elsewhere.

If you want a carbon blade, take a look at the Fujiwara FKH santoku from JCK:

http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/FKHSeries.html#FKH

Rick
Click to expand...
+1 on JCK. I bought two knives from them a couple of years back and their prices and service were outstanding. I got the package from Japan in less than a week and IIRC, the shipping was like $20!!!!!
 
300Six said:
Certainly the concept of laminated carbon and stainless steel is a wonderful one but other than that I've had no luck with Japanese kitchen knives. The French (I think, the Europeans for sure) developed the integral forged quillon to ensure that metal fatigue at the blade/grip was minimal. Oriental knives don't feature this. Perhaps the two laminated Japanese knives I bought weren't expensive enough (although they certainly weren't cheap) since they've become increasingly prone to bending (ie metal fatigue) at the hilt some 15 years later. but the early 1950's carbon steel Sabatiers I have are still wonderfully strong and functional.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that no one has said....what in the world do you do to your knives? Thinking about your technique at the cutting board makes me cringe.
 
I'd skip those cheap made in China Tojiros and get something that will last and is ground correctly and will cut better.
As with other knives, you get what you pay for.
 
ichor said:
I'm surprised that no one has said....what in the world do you do to your knives? Thinking about your technique at the cutting board makes me cringe.
Click to expand...
Crushing garlic and hold the blade only by the handle, I guess.
 
mainaman said:
I'd skip those cheap made in China Tojiros and get something that will last and is ground correctly and will cut better.
As with other knives, you get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

Your post shows a vast lack of knowledge.
 
mainaman said:
I'd skip those cheap made in China Tojiros and get something that will last and is ground correctly and will cut better.
As with other knives, you get what you pay for.
Click to expand...

Tojiro's manufactuing is in Yoshida, Japan. Fujiwara's and MAC's of the same class molyV steels are exceptional and used heavily in fine dining.
 
Tojiro DP 240 gyuto was my first venture into Japanese kitchen knives 7-8 years ago. The thinness, cutting capability and edge holding was so far superior to any European or American knife I'd ever used, I've since bought at least a dozen Japanese knives , in at least 10 different brands. Some Western knife makers have seen the writing on the wall and jumped on the higher quality steel/higher Hrc bandwagon, but many/most are not priced for the first time buyer. My old Tojiro is still takin' a lickin' in the kitchen and, tho' there is now a much greater, affordable selection available, I still would not hesitate recommending Tojiro DP to someone wanting to give Japanese knives a try. If you've just gotta have carbon, the Fujiwara FKH, recommended by Pen Tiger is a great choice. My 2 cents....YMMV.
 
Jason B. said:
Your post shows a vast lack of knowledge.
Click to expand...

Do not presume to know what my knowledge is about Japanese knives.
I know people in that business and the word is that the steel is made in China, stamped there and assembled in Japan. What is more than that is I have had a few of those Tojiros, grinds were horrible extremely uneven and impossible to fix. Explain how 69 bucks cover a hand-forged and ground 240mm blade with san mai white #2 shipped to US from Japan. And of course 330_mate is known for quality product, not.
 
ichor said:
Tojiro DP 240 gyuto was my first venture into Japanese kitchen knives 7-8 years ago. The thinness, cutting capability and edge holding was so far superior to any European or American knife I'd ever used, I've since bought at least a dozen Japanese knives , in at least 10 different brands. Some Western knife makers have seen the writing on the wall and jumped on the higher quality steel/higher Hrc bandwagon, but many/most are not priced for the first time buyer. My old Tojiro is still takin' a lickin' in the kitchen and, tho' there is now a much greater, affordable selection available, I still would not hesitate recommending Tojiro DP to someone wanting to give Japanese knives a try. If you've just gotta have carbon, the Fujiwara FKH, recommended by Pen Tiger is a great choice. My 2 cents....YMMV.
Click to expand...

The DP line is very good quality, perfect entry level knives. I still have a suji from them.
 
I have a hard time believing that considering its White steel, that's a Japanese steel, made by Hitachi. It's pre laminated and stamped then ground. These are not forged knives, so again, you knowledge is lacking.
 
Thank you all for your recommendations and info.

I was afraid at first of having a knife I won't use because it leaves metallic taste on food so I ordered the Tojiro DP Santoku. It's brilliant, sharp and smooth. My love for the traditional 'wa' style Santoku wasn't satisfied though so I ended up ordering the Tojiro Shirogami (white steel) Santoku as well.

The carbon steel knife is very interesting. It feels rough so I feel comfortable applying more force when using it than when using the DP. Its center of weight is forward into the blade where the pinch grip goes which I prefer, where the DP's center is right on the bolster. For now, after I use it, I wash and dry it immediately and put some olive oil on the blade.
I put the knife to a stone once (a polishing stone) and I could easily smell the blade! It smells like flint :P

This knife might need more maintenance and that might be undesired but it sure is interesting and it performs very well. For me now, that's what important. I like it.

By the way, a question. I noticed that I can easily polish the edge to mirror polish with the right stone. Why didn't they do it in the factory? Is it because rougher side for the knife is better in this case? Do they leave it like that for the looks? Or is it simply better but they skipped it because of the low price?

About the Fujiwara, I didn't buy it because its HRC rating is lower (~58 where the Tojiro is ~61). I don't say that it's worse, but since I learn to sharpen, the sharpening experience is important to me. I needed a high HRC knife in order to test my stones against it (apart from using the knife, of course).

Thanks again :)
 
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