Invasive species...new threats?

[ROCK6]

New threats?

I think most of us here don’t fear the outdoors; it’s more of a healthy respect. We know there are dangers but that’s why we take precautions, manage risk and generally keep aware of our surroundings and weather. There are some predatory animals that we must consider despite the low probability of encounters in the lower 48, but most of us accept those low probability encounters...but have we increased the threat with the human-aided introduction of some new invasive species?

I’m just wondering if we have increased the outdoors threats both with disrupting natural population controls and introducing invasive new species. I bring this up in the light of our trip down to the Florida Keys about a month ago. I had a couple encounters with iguanas that were quite aggressive. One was quite territorial, but I did have my CCW so there was no real threat, but I was surprised at how aggressive it acted. In the Miami area, there have been reports of tegu and monitor lizard attacks. Of course the explosion of boa’s and pythons are also a very real threat in some areas. Another rapidly expanding threat are the wild pigs throughout the south and expanding. I know here in GA, they are more than just destructive; there have been reports of attacks.

These new invasive species may not be as much of a threat as a bear, but the potential is still there for attacks and significant injuries. The good news is most of them taste good, so from a survival aspect, they can also be beneficial.

I do have concerns about our wildlife management aspects. I do think we do a pretty good job on the hunting side for most species, but there are some species such as the cougar that haven’t been controlled and in some parts of the country, the populations are booming…which leads to an expansion of their hunting ranges and prey selection.

The animal kingdom does well at adaptation…some artificially initiated by humans, but regardless, it’s still amazing. I just find it interesting at how we have created new potential threats in our environments and the impact to the local, indigenous flora and fauna.

Any thoughts from your immediate areas?

ROCK6

 

[bigcountry1315]

Rock I live in an area where they have the wolf on the endangered species list.2 years ago I was walking out after dark from bow hunting.I heard something parallel me and kept looking around with my flashlight but could not see anything. I get out to the two track and start my Jeep and turn on my headlights and a wolf walks out 10 yards from where I came out of the woods. Like you I always have my ccw weapon with me( this time a Glock model 22 with 15 hollow points). There are a lot of trail cam pictures of cougars up here also. Lots of people like to ignore these facts when they go into the woods,not me I carry a handgun and a large knife. There have been 2 black bear attacks up here in the last month. I would rather carry and not need it than need it and not have it!

 

[kgd]

Invasive species has contributed to alterations of the ecosystem/landscape to a great extent throughout our history and as a stress might be considered on par with habitat alteration itself. On the one hand, sometimes we over-play the negatives of what the latest invasive species might do because it really is a guess and when you are looking at the exponential part of the growth curve when they are just introduced it can be pretty difficult to figure out at what point they will stabilize. Often times they overshoot the environmental capacity during these growths with great ramifications to the things they feed on as well as annoyances to man but then settle into a lower more stable population state with adjustment by the surrounding ecosystem components. In the latter cases, the changes to the ecosystem are often permanent (or long term) but of course that is exactly what ecosystems are - dynamic systems of interactions between animals and their environment (man being included with the animals here). Ecologists will sometimes forget this, but we do have to remember that ecosystems are not static systems and they do not automatically return to some so called pristine state like we are taught under succession theory. I can wright a thesis on that topic, but its a bit irrelevant now. Point is all species have a drive and tendency to disperse. They are limited by their environment and locomotor capacity and sometimes we spread them with us along with our travels or intentionally release them (lets face it the forest, fish & game departments plus agriculture have released as many invasives if not more then the ships, pet owners and homesick immigrants have). Although the ramifications are alarming and lead to localized extinctions as invasives take over a place, this is no more different than widespread dispersion of species in geological time (at one point all our landmasses where one and at another point it they maybe connected again). Are the enhanced transport today producing a virtual Gondwonaland? This is a good question and the risks of such will be emphatically articulated in different ways depending on whether you talk to somebody concerned specifically with endangered and threatened species against those concerned with ecosystem production and stability.

What Rock6 is talking about is the introduction of dangerous invasives. This is an interesting turn of course. Jered Diamond cited the case of "Man" as an invasive species himself during the colonization of the new world (Natives not Europeans) and the mass extinctions of large vertebrates that follow the first human occupation of a landscape. Curiously, more recent work in this area demonstrated that often the first to go are the large vertebrate predators, not because man hunts them per se. But because man is very good at out competing them for prey and better equipped to over-exploit smaller prey densities. Rock's examples differs distinctly here because Man is no longer competing with the re-introduced big predators out there owing to food subsidies by farming practices. It is an interesting delema that might as easily be called a 'success' by one discipline as well as a 'disaster' by the another.

Anyhow, do I worry incessantly about this stuff? No (but I do get grant money to study it). I also don't have any reason to carry a weapon in my area. I've lived with the black bears up north long enough that should a day come where they are re-introduced in my part of Ontario I will be happier than I would be nervous. Like the plants and prey items, we have to learn to adapt to our new environment even when it isn't always us doing the alterations. Tit for Tat

 

[ROCK6]

Rock I live in an area where they have the wolf on the endangered species list.2 years ago I was walking out after dark from bow hunting.I heard something parallel me and kept looking around with my flashlight but could not see anything. I get out to the two track and start my Jeep and turn on my headlights and a wolf walks out 10 yards from where I came out of the woods. Like you I always have my ccw weapon with me( this time a Glock model 22 with 15 hollow points). There are a lot of trail cam pictures of cougars up here also. Lots of people like to ignore these facts when they go into the woods,not me I carry a handgun and a large knife. There have been 2 black bear attacks up here in the last month. I would rather carry and not need it than need it and not have it!

Yeah, I was pretty much focused on human-induced invasive species not indigenous, but I would also agree that we have decimated some populations of indigenous fauna and have attempted to protect, reintroduce and sometimes even relocate. I think we do a good job at management through hunting, but some of the more predatory animals have more restrictive regulations allowing them to expand their range and sometimes, menu. I think kgd said it best at ecosystems being dynamic and not static…humans can attempt to achieve balance, but nature will always be cyclical and dynamic. If you can understand and accept that, you can prepare for it. Just because a certain predator hasn’t been seen in the area for decades doesn’t mean they should be dismissed and you should ignore basic safety precautions or at least remain alert.

Invasive species has contributed to alterations of the ecosystem/landscape to a great extent throughout our history and as a stress might be considered on par with habitat alteration itself. On the one hand, sometimes we over-play the negatives of what the latest invasive species might do because it really is a guess and when you are looking at the exponential part of the growth curve when they are just introduced it can be pretty difficult to figure out at what point they will stabilize. Often times they overshoot the environmental capacity during these growths with great ramifications to the things they feed on as well as annoyances to man but then settle into a lower more stable population state with adjustment by the surrounding ecosystem components. In the latter cases, the changes to the ecosystem are often permanent (or long term) but of course that is exactly what ecosystems are - dynamic systems of interactions between animals and their environment (man being included with the animals here).

What Rock6 is talking about is the introduction of dangerous invasives. This is an interesting turn of course. Jered Diamond cited the case of "Man" as an invasive species himself during the colonization of the new world (Natives not Europeans) and the mass extinctions of large vertebrates that follow the first human occupation of a landscape. Curiously, more recent work in this area demonstrated that often the first to go are the large vertebrate predators, not because man hunts them per se. But because man is very good at out competing them for prey and better equipped to over-exploit smaller prey densities. Rock's examples differs distinctly here because Man is no longer competing with the re-introduced big predators out there owing to food subsidies by farming practices. It is an interesting delema that might as easily be called a 'success' by one discipline as well as a 'disaster' by the another.

Anyhow, do I worry incessantly about this stuff? No (but I do get grant money to study it). I also don't have any reason to carry a weapon in my area. I've lived with the black bears up north long enough that should a day come where they are re-introduced in my part of Ontario I will be happier than I would be nervous. Like the plants and prey items, we have to learn to adapt to our new environment even when it isn't always us doing the alterations. Tit for Tat

Great response as usual Ken (Were you drinking?)! I think accepting that ecosystems are dynamic really gets overlooked as you mentioned. With our more native predators, we know most of their habits, food sources, behaviors, etc….it’s easier to maintain a more “static” ecosystem through artificial management; although there will always be cycles due to disease, over-population shifts going back and forth, etc.

With invasive species, I’m not sure we will know the threat for years to come. I do like you philosophy that change is constant. What is fact is that we should also adapt…I was really thinking about barbeque iguana, tegu lizard, monitor or python? I do think Ken is spot on…we as humans are “invasive” and there are so many examples today of non-native flora and fauna that have been introduced (inadvertently or on purpose) in America that ecosystems will change over time. I guess we could even add a discussion on the pluses and minuses of invasive vegetation…scotch broom, kudzu, etc.

ROCK6

 

[dipbait]

The biggest threat to me is getting knocked out of a canoe by one of those asian carp.It happened to my niece. The guy who is responsible for their release needs some punishment.

 

[stabman]

I had a couple encounters with iguanas that were quite aggressive. One was quite territorial, but I did have my CCW so there was no real threat, but I was surprised at how aggressive it acted. In the Miami area, there have been reports of tegu and monitor lizard attacks.

Having owned a number of monitors and iguanas, the idea of needing a weapon to deal with one is the funniest thing I've read this week.

 

[Les Snyder]

a friend had a terrible odor coming from the rear of his car... takes it to his mechanic, and puts it on the lift....mechanic goes ballistic...putrified remains of a 6+ foot python was wedged between the gas tank and trunk sheetmetal...he lives in Pinellas County Florida (St Petersburg area)

 

[OwenM]

I'd kick a field goal with the hogs that made the only tracks I've found, but there have been two black bears(wild, not escaped) captured in the city of Birmingham this year. Would only seem natural there are more out there.
I do hope we don't end up overrun with freaking hogs like some parts of the Southwest I've heard about.

Kudzu...that's a good one. I wonder if people from other parts of the country have any idea about how fast that stuff grows here. There are neighborhoods built there now, but I remember kudzu overtaking entire wooded areas(and not taking long to do it), so that they looked like this image I stole from google:

 

[Ravaillac]

I think harm done by invasive species on environment is very real.
Direct threat on average outdoor wanderer, notably by aggressive medium/large animals, is generally pretty anecdotal although I'd be concerned by the spread of certain "pests" like ticks and or allergy inducing plants, or the accelerated spread of certain diseases or parasites.
When it comes to large "dangerous" animals, as already pointed, human activity has probably done more to reduce them then increase them.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Not really many threats in my area. Just the normal things like snake bits, bee stings and a recent report about West Nile virus in Md. As far as large predators, we don't have any. Coyotes, although I've never encountered any, have been reported. But no attacks on people.
Scott

 

[Mannlicher]

pythons, boas, tegu and other lizards, are not a threat to adult humans. You don't need to carry an assault rifle in South Florida.

 

[Codger_64]

Fire ants here. I hate those things and they will light you up if you accidently stand on or near their nests such as when mowing the lawn or working construction. I have no idea how they impact the natural environment here, but I assume they do displace some naturally occuring species as well as harassing mankind and ruining lawns. My first run-in with them was while canoe camping on a river in the Florida Panhandle. They climbed a tree in the night and filled my pants I had hung there. They didn't sting me until my canoe was loaded and launched the next morning. I then learned that you can't drown the buggers.

 

[ROCK6]

Having owned a number of monitors and iguanas, the idea of needing a weapon to deal with one is the funniest thing I've read this week.

Yeah, as I was messing with the iguana (about four feet long), he was whipping his tail and hissing up a storm. Other than trapping, I don't think I would have attempted catching/killing one without a long stick! They do seem like they would make a very good food source and some areas had several sunning themselves. It's comforting to have a pistol so you're not in the headlines...."man killed by vegetarian iguana"

ROCK6

 

[Mistwalker]

Not really so much here other than coyotes, which weren't here when I was a kid. For these just how dangerous they can be or how much of a problem they can be will have to be figured out over time. They are not exactly a predator to humans, at least so far, but they pray on the rabbits and are driving a lot more of them more into urbanized areas. From all the tracks I'm still seeing this isn't a major problem for the bobcats yet, they are still around here and there. I think the bobcats are a little more willing to come into urban areas and hunt at night than the coyotes are. I find bear sign now and then but not a lot and bears were in this area when I was young. No big lizards or snakes yet, I've found a few rattlers. I happen like reptile, at least I know I like turtle, rattle snake, and alligator, and here iguanas taste pretty good but it probably gets a little cool up here for them.

 

[led4them]

Coyotes are very intelligent and cunning, one will lure a dog out and then the pack will gang up on it, killing the dog, shot one trying to do it to my dogs, I keep a great pyrenees because of them.

 

[Mistwalker]

Coyotes are very intelligent and cunning, one will lure a dog out and then the pack will gang up on it, killing the dog, shot one trying to do it to my dogs, I keep a great pyrenees because of them.

I observe their actions every chance I get. I was on the way home from a shoot when I saw one on the side of the road at an over pass watching a ground hog in broad daylight. It's not really a highly developed area but businesses and home just about 200 meters in each direction. It was about noon, and it appeared to be a young one that hadn't been eating very well. I really regretted the dead batteries in the cameras.

 

[22-rimfire]

Invasive species... I think we can deal with the indigneous species that are making gains. I don't see many coyotes, but I know they are around. They can be a problem in neighborhoods where small pets roam at times.

Kudzu... now that is a plant I HATE. As I understand it, it was introduced to the US by the highway department as a way to stabilize hillsides. It worked... boy did it work. The stuff grows and covers everything in its path and eventually kills the trees.

Bobcats... been seeing more in the last 20 years. I like to see them.

Black Bears are becoming a bit of a problem in many areas. They have some rather bad habits once they learn that there is easy pickins (food) around houses. However, they aren't anything hunting won't stabilize.

Asian Carp.... who ever introduced them to our warm waterways needs to be shot.

Elk, cool, but I have heard that many farmers have problems where they are locally abundant.

The foreign snakes and repitiles that are making a home and prosperion in Florida need to be eradicated.

 

[adam0321]

Florida had plent of snakes with out the introduction of pythons/anacondas

 

[rwc53]

ROCK, as you know from living in Texas previously, we have a HUGE problem with wild hogs down here. There are the "normal" ferals, as well as Russians....all dangerous. You are encouraged by the State to kill them. As to damage to the ecosystem, I believe it was in 2009 that the Texas Parks & Wildlife folks ran a study in South Texas. Of the 30 200#+ hogs they killed and studied stomach contents, 29 of them had the remains of fawns in their stomachs.

Ron

 

[ROCK6]

ROCK, as you know from living in Texas previously, we have a HUGE problem with wild hogs down here. There are the "normal" ferals, as well as Russians....all dangerous. You are encouraged by the State to kill them. As to damage to the ecosystem, I believe it was in 2009 that the Texas Parks & Wildlife folks ran a study in South Texas. Of the 30 200#+ hogs they killed and studied stomach contents, 29 of them had the remains of fawns in their stomachs.

Ron

Wow, didn't know hogs would be that aggressive against deer! I'd heard of competition, but not eating your competition! Here in GA, hogs are also year round pests you can hunt.

ROCK6