"Investment Grade Knives"

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betzner

betzner

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Not sure if anyone has been following the Harrisburg auction this week, but here is an example of one of the "investment grade" knives, this one (Virgil Earp's Bowie) just having sold today for $16k. Certainly a different kind of "investment grade" knife than one usually sees here in the Customs forum, but nonetheless investment grade (presuming appropriate provenance). This is just one example of several, including knives of Wild Bill Hickock, Billy the Kid, etc. This auction was a once in a lifetime chance to pick up some historically important (though not necessarily visually appealing) pieces.

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There's a lot of cool items in that auction, thanks for sharing.
 
It is interesting that the auction description simply states "Virgil Earp's Fighting Bowie Knife. With a sheath with a brass figure of an Indian head. Believe to be Wyatt Earp's from the Bill Merick Collection" I would not buy on that provenance.

I'm not sure the taxpayers of Harrisburg agree with the investment potential of this collection

The former mayor spent 8.3 million on the whole collection, although the local newspaper states many suspect much more was spent on it

some was sold for 1.66m a few years back. Through day 4 the city has netted $2m per the paper. They will have to net 4.6m on the last 2 days to break even.
 
bandaidman said:
It is interesting that the auction description simply states "Virgil Earp's Fighting Bowie Knife. With a sheath with a brass figure of an Indian head. Believe to be Wyatt Earp's from the Bill Merick Collection" I would not buy on that provenance.
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Nor would I. As with any auction, one is best represented by being there. I've partnered with someone who's on site, and who is reviewing collateral materials/documentation to assure provenance.

But with respect to "Earp", there was a well-documented double action revolver of Wyatt Earp's that brought $35k.
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Curious piece though not what I would have expected to see. It'll be interesting to see if the provenance proves to be authentic.

Gary
 
It would definitely be VERY cool to own Virgil's Bowie, but I would imagine that actually proving that it was really his would be just shy of impossible...TONS of people have been fleeced over the years buying guns and other "Authentic" items supposedly owned by famous figures in history, but of course that's no secret.

It's an interesting piece for sure, and fun to look at, but short of being accompanied by an actual photo of Virgil holding or wearing it, I just wouldn't be able to bring myself to buy it. Even then it could still be a copy...how does one go about proving the actual provenance of something like that? Is it always just a shot in the dark and crossing your fingers? I'm genuinely curious about this since I have no experience in collecting pieces of history
 
It's a genuinely ugly piece, IMHO - looking at it with 21st century tastes, rather than 19th century senses. Not at all what anyone would probably expect to see.

A decent amount of the bidding came from internet bidders, who would have had little idea of the documentation any of the pieces provided - other than the short descriptions furnished online. I imagine that some will be sorely disappointed when the time comes to sell a piece - and it's determined that the documentation/provenance is lacking.
 
MRuthJr said:
It would definitely be VERY cool to own Virgil's Bowie, but I would imagine that actually proving that it was really his would be just shy of impossible...TONS of people have been fleeced over the years buying guns and other "Authentic" items supposedly owned by famous figures in history, but of course that's no secret.

It's an interesting piece for sure, and fun to look at, but short of being accompanied by an actual photo of Virgil holding or wearing it, I just wouldn't be able to bring myself to buy it. Even then it could still be a copy...how does one go about proving the actual provenance of something like that? Is it always just a shot in the dark and crossing your fingers? I'm genuinely curious about this since I have no experience in collecting pieces of history
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Mike,

Many items in the auction had chains of documentation to establish a minimum of ownership or authenticity. Others had less provenance. But to pony up four or five figures, I personally would need "suitable" documentation.
 
The coat that Doc Holliday wore at the OK Corral shoot-out went for $50k. Musta smelled like mothballs. His dental chair went for $40k. His swordcane went for $15k. His dental kit for $17k. All well documented. And a little vest pocket pistol for $50k.

The auction was heavy on Tombstone stuff, most of it having halfway decent documentation. And some of the auction items, of course, were original documents, examples being state grand jury indictments of Johnny Ringo and John Wesley Hardin, an arrest warrant for Jesse James, etc.
 
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Definitely not my "cup-o-tea" design-wise either Bob. I enjoy checking out knives of all shapes and sizes, though. I absolutely agree, judging by current standards, she ain't pretty! It is COMPLETELY different than what I would expect someone to carry and actually use on a daily basis during any time period...seems a little too "novelty" oriented to me. That being said, I'm certainly no expert:)
 
Thanks for the reply Bob! I'm glad to know that most of this stuff can actually be authenticated. I can only imagine what a nightmare it would be dropping that type of $ on a piece just HOPING that it was the real deal...makes me cringe just thinking about it!
 
MRuthJr said:
Thanks for the reply Bob! I'm glad to know that most of this stuff can actually be authenticated. I can only imagine what a nightmare it would be dropping that type of $ on a piece just HOPING that it was the real deal...makes me cringe just thinking about it!
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Incidentally, please don't surmise that I had any notion of pursuing that Virgil Earp Bowie, no way. D guards are illegal in California (LOL).

But I did grab some things - almost every day of the auction, actually.
 
betzner said:
Incidentally, please don't surmise that I had any notion of pursuing that Virgil Earp Bowie, no way. D guards are illegal in California (LOL).

But I did grab some things - almost every day of the auction, actually.
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No assumptions on my part Bob, I'm just happy to see it because it's a bit left field of what I would expect him to carry. Most of the knives I've seen that have been reportedly carried by famous folks in American history have been relatively "lack-luster" IMHO, compared to the knives being produced today...but I usually chalk that up to available construction methods and a fairly limited exposure to the work of other makers of the time. Glad to hear that you did get some loot from the auction! You wouldn't have picked up Doc's sword-cane would you?? Now that is something that I would LOVE to see:D

It does seem a bit strange to me that D-Guards are illegal in CA, but I guess they have their reasons. Seems to me if somebody's coming after you with a Bowie knife, the least of your worries should be getting your teeth knocked out with the guard! Not trying to derail the tread in any way, though...just seems like a funny law to me!
 
The Virgil bowie is interesting, Virgil must have had a strong connection to the native american culture. Any interesting firearms in the auction? I heard something about Wild Bill Hickcock's pistol...
 
David Stifle said:
The Virgil bowie is interesting, Virgil must have had a strong connection to the native american culture. Any interesting firearms in the auction? I heard something about Wild Bill Hickcock's pistol...
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Lots of firearms, no Hickok firearms - but there is a seventh day to the auction tomorrow that isn't internet-connected. Not sure whether there'll be any more Hickok stuff.
 
MRuthJr said:
No assumptions on my part Bob, I'm just happy to see it because it's a bit left field of what I would expect him to carry. Most of the knives I've seen that have been reportedly carried by famous folks in American history have been relatively "lack-luster" IMHO, compared to the knives being produced today...but I usually chalk that up to available construction methods and a fairly limited exposure to the work of other makers of the time. Glad to hear that you did get some loot from the auction! You wouldn't have picked up Doc's sword-cane would you?? Now that is something that I would LOVE to see:D

It does seem a bit strange to me that D-Guards are illegal in CA, but I guess they have their reasons. Seems to me if somebody's coming after you with a Bowie knife, the least of your worries should be getting your teeth knocked out with the guard! Not trying to derail the tread in any way, though...just seems like a funny law to me!
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Mike,

D-guards are classed like brass knuckles in California, as a felony. And the very first thing I really would have wanted from the auction was the Doc Holliday sword cane - but no way was I gonna drop a wad on yet another California felony-classed weapon - yep, sword canes are also illegal in Ca.
 
betzner said:
Mike,

D-guards are classed like brass knuckles in California, as a felony. And the very first thing I really would have wanted from the auction was the Doc Holliday sword cane - but no way was I gonna drop a wad on yet another California felony-classed weapon - yep, sword canes are also illegal in Ca.
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Well that's a serious bummer:grumpy: Susan and I are swinging through California for a little bit next month on our road-trip version of a honeymoon...looks like I'll be leaving some of my favorite toys at home then, lol!
 
I could be completely out in left field as I am by no means an authority but the knife looks like something that would be sold at Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show as a souvenir rather than something that Virgil Earp would carry ;). I certainly would be very cautious before investing in it.

Gary
 
This auction had a great deal of well documented Earp, Doc Holliday and Tombstone material in it. That being said, the only documentation I saw on this piece didn't impress me but can't say I saw everything there was to see, either. I would never have been interested in this piece, in any case. And as with any auction, the buyer had better satisfy him/herself beforehand, not after.

We've got to recognize that while we are looking at the piece from a 21st century perspective, they were going about their lives and ways in the 19th century - and more than likely seeing the piece in an altogether different light.

EDIT: Think we'll just close this thread out (lock it), since it was meant pretty much to just be kinda informational, anyway - and it's all about antiques, not current custom stuff.
 
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