Invitation to 3 forum members to witness destructive testing

L

Lynn Grififth Knives

Joined
Jul 30, 1999
Messages
724
A recent thread discussing destructive testing, has got me in the mood to destroy one of my blades for the sake of science. I happen to have a Spec Ops Bowie blade that warped during heat treat. The heat treat should be exactly the same as the heat treat on KodiakPA's bowie, as they were both heat treated at the same time. This one warped, his came out perfect. I have kept this slightly warped blade, because I intended to thin it out into a kitchen knife for my wife. She is out of luck!. I started the destruction of this knife already, by cutting a 1/4" bolt 3 times using a vise to force the blade through. There was no visual damage on the first two cuts, but the vise put a very small mark on the edge on the 3rd cut. Also the knife dropped out of the vise on to the concrete floor after each cut, damaging the tip very slightly. I was going to scan the knife and bolt after each cut. That proved to be very boring. Then I had an idea. I could invite 3 forum members to come witness and help in the destruction of this knife. Limit it to 3 to keep things more fun for the 3 of us. My intentions is to completely destroy this knife, by means of testing. I have 3 forum members in mind, but they may or not be available or interested in driving to my shop for the test. I live in Glenpool Ok. (near Tulsa). I am open to suggestions of who the 3 may be, but the test must be done in January some time. I will work with the three chosen to pick a time that is most convenient for them and me. My choices so far (because I have met them, and they live in Oklahoma) are:

Yvsa

Richard

Cheif


Let me know what you all think

Thanks,

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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Available Knives
 
Lynn, I wish I lived in the area. As an idea, would you consider discussing this with Mike and maybe submitting it to the online mag. I think it would make for one hell of an article.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,
I was just thinking "I wish Cliff lived in my area, so he could be here for the test". I welcome those that participate to use the data however they see fit. I hope one of them brings a digital camera, or a camcorder. I agree that many times factories, and individuals can be misleading. I figure with there being 4 of us there, each will have there own pespective of how the test went. I am really looking forward to this, and hope I have no problems getting 3 voluteers together.

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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Available Knives
 
Lynn, You know I have been wanting to come visit your shop anyway so I would be happy to volunteer for this. I even went to www.mapquest.com yesterday to figure out exactly where Glenpool is! I live close to OKC so if the other volunteers need a ride from here they can tag along with me. Thanks for thinking of me.
 
This should be interesting. Can't wait to read the results.

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The impossible I can do right away, miracles take a little longer.
 
Lynn, your <a href="http://www.griffithknives.com/board/?topic=topic1&msg=140">recent post</a> about your warrenty reminds me of a discussion I had with Sean Perkins about a year ago. I got interested in his knives after reading some very favorable reviews and after checking out the blades was going to get at least one to check out in part due to some very strong performance statements he made. However after reading his warrenty section it looked as if any attempt to verify anything he stated would void the warrenty. We discussed this and yes this was the case. So I passed on the blades, at least he was upfront anyway.

Before we discuss the issue further let me ask you to clarify a statement you made in the above thread :

Will I fix a knife for free that you
dropped on concrete, purposely to test the point? No.
Click to expand...

Does this include if the breakage was beyond the expected? This for me is what is important. I would expect to see some damage as a result of this the extent being controlled by the geometry, steel and temper. As long as the damage was reasonable if I wanted it fixed I would of course pay you to fix it.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,
Any thing I state, can be used as a frame of reference. That puts me at a disadvantage. And still yet, I am glad that you decided to ask this publicly.


Before I go on, though I want to bring everyone up to speed.

Cliff has ordered a knife from me. A MNK-1. I did not know at the time that he purchased it, what his intentions for the knife were to be. By that I mean, I was not aware that he was buying the knife to review. He did not state to me, that the knife would be dropped on concrete, bent in a vise, or any other type of distructive testing.


If it were anyone but Cliff, I would ask them to send the knife back to me unused (for a full refund), or know that the warranty would be voided by such abuse. However it is Cliff. He does already have the knife. And while I hate working many hours on something to have it destroyed, I welcome Cliff's testing.


This is an exception, and not the rule. To all others that buy my knives, no that intentional distruction is not covered or implyed by me to be covered under any warranty. Cliff, while I feel that you have gotten my least expensive, smallest knife, that was designed to be the minimum of size and weight, and concealability, over hard use I want you to do your worst to it. All I ask is that you do the less destructive parts of your testing first, so that they can be done. When the testing is finished, send the broken peices back to me for a $55 credit towards your choice of Griffith Knives. The only condition, is that you promise to not do any abusive testing on the second knife. If this is agreeable then please proceed with your testing, and please test the MNK-1 to its ultimated destruction (I want it back in at least 2 peices). If this is not acceptable, please send the MNK-1 back for a full refund less shipping.

Thank you,

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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Available Knives
 
That's a cool deal!
cool.gif


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-Humpty

AKTI Member # A000984
Proverbs 23:2
 
Sounds like a fair deal to me
smile.gif

Honor and Integrity above all.

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The impossible I can do right away, miracles take a little longer.
 
There seems to be a lot of confusion between testing how a knife performs for the purposes it's advertised for and testing to destruction. The whole idea of testing knives has been very deliberately confused by one or two makers whose knives have failed while being tested at doing the jobs they're advertised to be able to do who've responded by accusing the testers of "destructive testing" and saying things like "you can break any knife if you try hard enough" ... I think there must have been a lot of confusion to start with though, or offering that kind of excuses when a chopping knife breaks while chopping wood would never have been taken seriously.

There really isn't anyone out there who would test a knife to destruction and then ask for a replacement under warranty. When Mike wanted to see how far the Busse and the CS could bend he decided to keep bending them until they broke -- did he ask for them to be replaced under warranty? Has Cliff ever asked for the knives he's tested to destruction to be replaced?

Let's see if we can clear this confusion up once and for all: testing to destruction is applying measured force until the knife fails. It is deliberately destroying a knife to see how much it can take.

When a chopping knife chips and breaks while being tested to see how fast it can chop through a piece of wood, the maker can whine about "destructive testing;" he can claim the test was unfair; he can claim the knife wasn't intended for such abuse and hope nobody has ever looked at his ads; he can claim it wasn't a knife at all; it was a flying saucer key -- none of that should confuse anybody. Consider the source.

If a knife is dropped point-first on concrete from a reasonable height, say one meter, we all expect the point to be damaged. Nobody is going to ask for a replacement because a knife needed sharpening after he dropped it on concrete. If the knife breaks in half from a one meter fall, then we would expect the warranty to apply.



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-Cougar Allen :{)
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This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.
 
Lynn, if the Okies can't make it, let me know. I live in North Central Texas and the last time I thought about it, I remembered how to get to Tulsa. That would be a good excuse to look at your knives. Don't pick a time when the ice hits up there. LOL
 
Cougar,
If you are anyone else uses one of my knives in any manner that knives are meant to be used, I think you will be very pleased. If you drop one of my knives point first on to concrete, I think you will be surprised by how little the damage is. If you hack on concrete with it, you will probably be impressed. My knives will take a lot. But they can be damaged, and they can be broken. I have a very limited out put of knives of about 15-30 per month, and that is being full-time. If you look at my website, you can see by my prices that I am not a rich man. I don't warranty abuse, because I can't afford to repair or replace knives that were damaged through no fault of my own. At the same time, I can not afford to have any customers unhappy with me, and as far as I know, I don't.

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Lynn Griffith-Knifemaker

griffithknives.com
GriffithKN@aol.com
Available Knives
 
Lynn, cool. I would love to do that. I think we will have a blast, and learn something to boot. Besides, I look forward to meeting a couple other forum members.

Richard

P.S. I was out near you today, had to pick up a bed for my grandmother.
 
I wish I were going to be in the neighborhood. I would love to see this!


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Clay Fleischer
clay_fleischer@yahoo.com
AKTI Member A000847

Sarchasm: The gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient who doesn't get it.
 
Bolts come in many different steels. Common unmarked are often A307 which is pretty soft. A325, A490, and the SAE graded ones are a lot harder to cut. I think you should note what steel the bolt is made.
 
Carriage bolts are very soft. Hex bolts are much better steel, even the ordinary ones with no marks on the head. Testing on ordinary hex bolts is enough to impress me. I use them to make firing pins and things like that.

The point I'm trying to make is Cliff and Joe and Harv and Mike and I, all the forumites who test and review knives, are not unreasonable people ... we don't abuse knives to destruction and then demand replacements under warranty, whatever one or two disgruntled makers may say. Read Cliff's website and decide for yourself if a knifemaker has anything to fear from him testing a knife ... read the Cougar Allen Fundamental Knife Test thread in the Reviews and Testing forum and decide for yourself if I deliberately break knives with abusive testing and send them back....

-Cougar Allen :{)
--------------------------------------
This post is not merely the author's opinions; it is the trrrrrruth. This post is intended to cause dissension and unrest and upset people, and ultimately drive them mad. Please do not misinterpret my intentions in posting this.


[This message has been edited by Cougar Allen (edited 23 December 1999).]
 
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