Irksome. Period...

Overmountain

Overmountain

Joined
May 2, 2013
Messages
1,711
I will concede the fact that it is going to be this way, but frankly I am getting tired of explaining it and trying to get around it. Any time I mention the fact I make custom knives someone has to state something about the custom knives polluting ebay. I then have to explain why those knives are either kit knives, crap Pakistani or Indian pieces of crap, made by a maker who doesn't know the first thing about ergonomics, metallurgy, or proper knife design, or a variation of these things. It is hard to attract new enthusiasts to procure real, quality works of art from makers like the fine gentlemen on this forum when they are assaulted by the masses of utter crap that appears when one enters 'custom knife' in a search query. It takes a thousand words to describe the myriad ways 'your/my' product is worthy or spending their hard earned money on versus the tempting low price hunk of crap at their fingertips.

What sparked this comment was seeing a short article on the bay about expensive items that had recently sold on ebay. I was intrigued as I had laughingly looked at some postings for industrial equipment while searching for a vintage lathe and had seen some pieces of equipment over a million dollars. Amongst the cars and luxury items was this item. JUNK
I mean seriously? Forget the fact that it is probably amongst the ugliest knives I have ever seen. I think the next knife I make I am going to huck it up on ebay, start my bids at $20k, and write a bunch of crap about it being forged in the bowels of a volcano by monks in the third century, resurrected by a blind archaeologist and re-handled by me... Ebay's article even made it sound like this thing was made by the actor. Really??? Looking at the bid history, either several people didn't do a bit of research before bidding a lot of money, or they're fake bids for publicity. I'm hoping it's the latter.

I'm sorry if this offends anyone who sells on ebay, or has purchased knives there. I know there are legitimate knives to be had there, however they are few and far between... I fielded a few questions about these knives recently and had a similar one come into my shop for sharpening and have just kind of reached my limit with them. This, in my mind, is pollution. Plain and simple. Polluting our craft. I am curious about other maker's thoughts on the matter. How they field such questions, or if they even acknowledge them with an answer... Is anyone else as fed up as I am?

Grudgingly,
-Eric
 
No. But then I don't sell knives. IMO-One picture is worth a thousand words. Pull pictures of the crappy knives off of fleabay and put them next to pictures of your knives. Show the prices! Visually, in a few minutes you can show why your (or other blade smiths knives) are superior to those up for auction. If you can, pick up a couple of pieces of crap and let the potential customer feel the difference.
 
I dunno, it has "Finest Hand Grinds". Not to mention hand forged stainless steel...
Why would I want about 60 of your "Overmountain" knives which will just last forever and be passed down to my great great grandchildren (one for each of them), when I could for the same money have one knife made/touched by or named after the man with the most awesome voice of all time?

Okay seriously though, yeah I can see the damage this does to the hand-crafted knife industry. What's more, you will probably never be able to convince someone who has paid a ridiculous amount of money for a junk knife that it is a junk knife. There are plenty of psych studies showing that if people commit financially to something they have an inflated opinion of its quality.

The other thing that irks me about this is it makes it very difficult for good craftsmen from countries which produce this junk to actually get into the market. Not only do they have to deal with all the junk that's out there but they also have to deal with the assumption that their stuff will also be junk. Not helpful to anyone.
 
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Chris Larrikin said:
There are plenty of psych studies showing that if people commit financially to something they have an inflated opinion of its quality.
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Shhhh... you'll screw up business for at least a few 'exotic' car makers with statements like this... : )

Chris Larrikin said:
The other thing that irks me about this is it makes it very difficult for good craftsmen from countries which produce this junk to actually get into the market. Not only do they have to deal with all the junk that's out there but they also have to deal with the assumption that their stuff will also be junk. Not helpful to anyone.
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This one statement is so absolutely true. There are guys in Pakistan and India that have a head full of knowledge that is passed down from generations of craftsmen. They are working with traditional tools and materials, and making things that are truly worthy of being called unique works of art. The minute the country of origin is mentioned there's a stigma. This is true of all things unfortunately, not just knives. Think steel, cars, electronics, etc... We assume something that may be truly unfounded about said product the minute the country of origin is stated.

Chris, thank you for the kind compliment. The impetus for my irksome remark was a local work of mouth customer who brought me a 'custom' knife he bought from ebay wanting me to sharpen it for him because it didn't come with, and wouldn't take an edge. He pleaded that he has sharpened his own knives for years with success, but just couldn't get this one to take and keep an edge... Can you see where this is going? Any one of the many makers here would have gladly made him a knife that would be the prize of his collection, his constant companion, and family heirloom for what he had paid for a pot-metal chunk from ebay. But his first venture into the 'custom' world was this bad purchase. Luckily I was in a position to hand him a knife made of known steel that was properly heat treated so that he could see the difference and make an informed purchase the next time...

Like I started the OP, I concede the point that it is this way in an age of having everything at your fingertips and more dis-information than fact out there. I just felt like blowing off some steam and hoping I strike a chord with others who have had the same discussion. And I know even the non-makers have to have this conversation when they present their prize custom commissioned knife to anyone who has had the unfortunate experience of buying a turd...

Well that's my $.02. Back to work...

Cheers!
-Eric
 
There's nothing you can do but be very clear and honest in your own advertising, and perhaps invite people to go comparison shopping on their own.

Bo T said:
Pull pictures of the crappy knives off of fleabay and put them next to pictures of your knives. Show the prices!...
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...and wait for the bills/lawsuits from the copyright lawyers. I understand your point, but that's a terrible idea for several reasons.
 
There is something shady going on there, when you click the show automatic bids tab some of the bids jump $5000 nobody does that.
 
John Katt said:
There is something shady going on there, when you click the show automatic bids tab some of the bids jump $5000 nobody does that.
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I noticed that. It is what makes me think (well, hope honestly) that this was just a fake auction to try and get some publicity for these crap sack blades...

Have you ever noticed that from time to time there are goods listed on ebay at 1000% markup? I think this might be sellers trying to get someone to accidentally bid on their item and then be over the proverbial barrel to pay the outrageous price... I haven't been able to figure that one out...

-Eric
 
Bo T said:
No. But then I don't sell knives. IMO-One picture is worth a thousand words. Pull pictures of the crappy knives off of fleabay and put them next to pictures of your knives. Show the prices! Visually, in a few minutes you can show why your (or other blade smiths knives) are superior to those up for auction. If you can, pick up a couple of pieces of crap and let the potential customer feel the difference.
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Its a great idea, but the buyer has to do their homework. Using actual photos of someone else's wares/ sales to springboard your sales could get you slapped with a nasty legal case.

Actually this might just be defamation lawsuit baiting. If talking crap about them results in the loss of sales for the "inflated price" knives, and they can prove it in court, you could likely be paying damages.
 
Only if you say something that isn't true. If you say it is inferior to your product based on some subjective reasoning, there's almost nothing they can do to keep you from saying it. If there was, all those pain reliever companies that have the same basic ingredients but claim to be better than each other would be perpetually suing each other. (Well, in some cases they do perpetually sue each other, but hey... they've got the money to burn...)

If you said it wasn't made from steel for example, but it in fact is steel, then they might have recourse.

People and companies alike like to think their are laws against people talking smack about them. Unfortunately being nice isn't something that there are laws, civil or criminal, against. Someone has to call you a name that is a real thing (like poop-head isn't, but prostitute is) and it has to be in a manner that would be believable by a reasonable person. And you then have to prove it impacted your business or standing in the community somehow. The burden of proof in tort law is lower, but it lies with the plaintiff.

Me saying I think those knives are produced in a third-world country with substandard components, their claims about the makers are false, and their prices are grossly inflated and every maker's knives that I have seen here are far better doesn't fit. Moreover it is true and provably so... lol.

And not like they would likely even bother with a lawsuit for myriad reasons.

-Eric
 
That's a pretty cool knife though. And hey it was made by Antonio Banderas, the voice of Puss in Boots himself.
 
Disregarding the legal and ethical issues (of which there are several) of using other people's copy and pics, if you have to advertise your work by running down others by name, you're just digging yourself a hole.

If you can show that someone is ripping people off, start a thread in TGB&U and let folks know or at least discuss it.

Keep your own house in order. Let your work stand on its own merits. You're never going to impress/convince the kind of person who's interested in that kinda BS anyway... might as well try to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine while arguing with a brick wall.
 
G. Shahan said:
I wouldn't worry about what other folks do.

I would just do my own thing.

Greg
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Pretty much this. There seems to be enough demand from knowledgeable customers that there's no sense stressing over the fact that everyone else is ignorant in this market.
 
james terrio said:
Disregarding the legal and ethical issues (of which there are several) of using other people's copy and pics, if you have to advertise your work by running down others by name, you're just digging yourself a hole.

If you can show that someone is ripping people off, start a thread in TGB&U and let folks know or at least discuss it.

Keep your own house in order. Let your work stand on its own merits. You're never going to impress/convince the kind of person who's interested in that kinda BS anyway... might as well try to drink whiskey from a bottle of wine while arguing with a brick wall.
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It's not really worrying about what other folks do, as much about the hosed over buyers who get turned off to 'custom' knives by the experience. That's my only concern. They can do with themselves what they want...

Maybe I was unclear...

-Eric
 
Yes, but it has "solid construction with its 5 mm thick blade going all the way inside handle without any joint or weld."

How can you compete with that? :cool:

Just endeavor to persevere. Do what you can to introduce yourself - and us - to people who know nothing of the knife world.
Break new ground.

There's been lots of good advice here for everyone to follow.

You gradually acquire your own following and never need to look back at what others are doing.
 
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