Iron

nate1714

nate1714

Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
1,738
I do theatre (lighting design) and with some of our shows that we have done lately there is a fair bit of Iron laying around...i asked and they told me i could use some...so the question is....is it worth it to make a knife out of iron...would it be a good way to practice...will this knife be usable at all....ect...good idea or not...i have the capability to use all the shop..since i have keys :) :) :) and am willing to give it a try but is it worth it can i even heat treat it? anyother questions that u all can inform me about would be great...
http://www.navaching.com/forge/ironknife.html .....this link says that its good for practice and wont harden...true or not?

http://www.apva.org/ngex/c11iknif.html heck they used then why shouldnt i!! lol
 
It can not be hardened since it has little or no carbon in it. It can be used for guards, bolster and pommels as well as other blacksmithing projects. If it's old enough it may have silicas in it and will etch out a nice pattern. Grind a piece to 320 and soak in vinegar over night and see if it has any grain patterns. If it does have a grain then grab all you can get.

It can be carburized but it's tricky and un-predictable as well as very time consuming compared to just buying 1095.
 
He's talking about structural steel not wrought iron .It's 1018 or similar and the carbon content is too low to be hardened.
 
you are correct it is structural steel but with that carbon content isnt it still iron...thats what im under the impression of.. and any one ever make a structural steel knife?
 
Wikipedia has surprisingly thorough definitions of steel and iron. should you care to read through them. With just a quick read through I didn't see any obvious discrepancies.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that steel needs to have at least .5% carbon before it can get hard enough to make a suitable knife.
 
"you are correct it is structural steel but with that carbon content isnt it still iron...thats what im under the impression of.. and any one ever make a structural steel knife?" - nate1714

Well, that carbon content makes it steel (iron is an element, steel is an alloy of iron and carbon no matter how low the carbon). I would imagine that most wrought "iron" is steel as well. It is the carbon content that determines how hard a steel can get when it is properly quenched. Low carbon steels will produce little overall hardness when quenched but are very tough. Higher carbon steels will become markedly harder, more wear resistant and flexible when properly quenched and tempered making it an ideal material for cutting tools.

Unless your sole intent it to make a "blade" shaped object, the structural steel you have access to will not make a decent blade but could be used for fittings and other "smithed" items as previously mentioned.
 
A popular misconception I keep seeing is "Real steel for knives is too expensive for me, so can I learn on {found steel, junkyard steel, recylcled steel, scrap steel, etc}?"

Yeah, sometimes you can, and sometimes you can't, plenty of great makers did start out that way... but whether you decide to go that route or not, just kinda keep in the back of your mind that good steel, real steel, knifemaking steel, you can have for about the price of a large pizza. And I'm not talking enough for one knife. I mean, enough for ten or twenty knives. About twenty bucks including shipping.

www.admiralsteel.com

:thumbup: :)
Mike
 
If there's a fastenall near you. 15 bucks got me a huge O1 drillrod which is enough for probably 20 knives, the stock is large enough however that i should have bought somethign smaller because reducing and forging the bar is killing my arm without a power hammer >_<

Blades use very little steel when you forge them, so all in all it's quite cheap. It's the other tools you use ON the steel that are expensive.
 
The previous two posters make a good point. Steel suitable for a blade is one of the smaller expenditures in the knife making process. Still, there is suitable steel to be found in scrap. Old leaf or coil springs that are still in good shape are a good source of blade steel (don't choose broken or obviously cracked ones) or old saw mill blades are often used. The problem with found steel is well, just that, you don't know what it is so you will have to experiment with heat treating it before you get optimal results.

Knives can readily be made with simple hand tools from decent "bought" bar stock or precison ground stock and you have the advantage of knowing just what it is and how to heat treat it. For a lot of found steel, as in round coil springs, you have no choice but to forge it out, but hey, forging is fun!
 
Nate,
You don't NEED a forge! Just go buy some 1084 or 1075 or 1095 flat stock and do your practicing on that. It's dirt cheap as has already been stated and at least you will be able to use you mistakes no matter how ugly. Several guys here will heat treat for 5 bucks.

Matt Doyle
 
Justin.Mercier said:
If there's a fastenall near you. 15 bucks got me a huge O1 drillrod which is enough for probably 20 knives, the stock is large enough however that i should have bought somethign smaller because reducing and forging the bar is killing my arm without a power hammer >_<

Blades use very little steel when you forge them, so all in all it's quite cheap. It's the other tools you use ON the steel that are expensive.
Click to expand...
Justin, once the weather warms up we can flatten that suck on my press.:thumbup:
 
Good deal, in the mean time I'm probably going out to get some O1 1/2" rod or smaller so I dont kill myself forging it down. I still want to get myself or build myself a treadle hammer in the next year maybe, then this 3/4" O1 wouldnt be a problem =) Doesnt help that the little single burner venturi forge I've got doesnt get quite hot enough for high carbon steels, though it's fine for mild steels which can be worked much cooler.

I still plan on taking you and Larry T up on that offer to help with my putting together a good blown tube forge this spring =P I should have most of the pieces together by spring too.
 
Justin.Mercier said:
Good deal, in the mean time I'm probably going out to get some O1 1/2" rod or smaller so I dont kill myself forging it down. I still want to get myself or build myself a treadle hammer in the next year maybe, then this 3/4" O1 wouldnt be a problem =) Doesnt help that the little single burner venturi forge I've got doesnt get quite hot enough for high carbon steels, though it's fine for mild steels which can be worked much cooler.

I still plan on taking you and Larry T up on that offer to help with my putting together a good blown tube forge this spring =P I should have most of the pieces together by spring too.
Click to expand...
No problem:thumbup: :thumbup:
 
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