Is 1086 long gone?

Kentucky

Kentucky

Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2,986
Has anyone ever saw a source for 1086(V,M) besides H.Clark? Or has it gone by the wayside?
 
I think that Aldos 1084 is about equivalent. It is a modified 1084 with vanadium.
Carbon .85
Mang. .82
Sil. .27
Cr. .15
V. .027
Nickel .08
Boron .003
 
Aldo's, has just a trace of vanadium. I believe Howard's 1086M has .22 or .24%. That extra 0 makes a huge difference. :)

I've used a good bit of 1086M from Howard and it is Very Good blade steel and very close to the W2 I have.
 
Thanks, I did not realize Howard's 1086 had that much V.
In Aldo's 1084FG the extra Mn is there to deepen the hardening.
While the V will help keep the grain fine, I suspect the small traces of Cr, V, B, and Ni are artifacts of the steel used in the melt and not the intent of the alloying run.

With Howard's .25% V,and the lower Mn, you will get a result quite similar to W2. This probably explains some of your great hamons.

I once asked about a small batch, 100# smelt of super clean 1060 with as little Mn as possible. I was told it would be nearly impossible to do short of a very expensive run due to the fact that there is a small amount of most all the standard alloy elements in most recycled steel ,no mater how refined it is. They would have to work from purified raw iron, which I guess is hard to get now that most all new steel is made from old steel.
I guess this helps keep the tamahagane guys in business.
 
Well you know Ive heard a few things around the net over time...Ive heard some called 1086V then Ive heard of just 1086..of course this is all 2nd hand info too...I wasnt sure and didnt know of anyone else besides Howard myself..
Last night I was poking around ebay and found a guy selling blade sized blanks of "1086" Roughly 9" long by 1 1/2" wide by 1/4" thick..He is asking about $19 per piece :D I would love to have tried some 1086..I had this idea to make some woodworkig tools from it..i know several other steels will work as well but you know how it is when you get something stuck in your head :grumpy:
Don Hanson III said:
I've never seen another source for 1086M, other than Howard Clark.
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Agreed Stacy. I believe any alloy under .1% is considered a trace and doesn't play a roll. I could be wrong though.
Aldo's 1084 is good stuff, I use a lot of it in my damascus. I do get good hamon with the 1086M, but get more activity with the W2 because of the .22 Mn it has, bout half of what the 1086M has.

Kentucky, I've never seen 1086 for sale, other than from Howard Clark. His was a special order mix for a company that made brick mason trowels. I did get some 1085 once, but it was high Mn and no V.
 
Kentucky, 1086V is a Crucible steel, I was told it was given the 1086V designation temporarily the steel is now known as Cru Forge V
Carbon 1.05
Chromium 0.50%
Vanadium 0.75%
Manganese 0.75%

Alpha Knife Supply has some last I looked.
 
That yay have been what they were calling it as a "working title" before they came up with the final forumula and the CruForgeV name. IIRC, the chromium was added to make it roll more easily and the extra manganese to make it deeper hardening. I have seen the Howard Clark steel referred to as 1086M.
Mike Turner said:
Kentucky, 1086V is a Crucible steel, I was told it was given the 1086V designation temporarily the steel is now known as Cru Forge V
Carbon 1.05
Chromium 0.50%
Vanadium 0.75%
Manganese 0.75%

Alpha Knife Supply has some last I looked.
Click to expand...
 
I dont think the 1086M and Cru V are the same, well there is at least enough different that they dont react to clay the same. The 1086M as Don indicated is real close to W2 and reacts very similar during h/t.
 
I've got a large round piece of Howard Clark's 1086 out in the shop, that I got from him years ago. Big honkin piece, probably 2" round. Looks like a jail bar. I trip over it everytime I walk through the shop, in fact.
 
bladsmth said:
With Howard's .25% V,and the lower Mn, you will get a result quite similar to W2.
Click to expand...

Howard's 1086M is awfully close to W2: it actually lands well within the AISI spec for W2: .85 - 1.5% C, .15 - .35% V, .1 - .4% Mn, .1 - .4% Si.

It's substantially harder to grind/polish than plain 1086 (I forged a wak from it in Howard's sword forging class). Some of Howard's sword polishers won't polish his 1086M swords, because it wears their waterstones out.

It was a custom melt for a company that was making bricklaying trowels. Howard saw it on the suppliers inventory, and ordered several thousand pounds of it. Turns out, the bricklaying company felt it was a proprietary alloy, and a pissing contest ensued. Howard got the 1086M, but it was a one-shot deal.


To add to the confusion, "1086V" was the working name for CruForge V, apparently from when Howard was working with Scott and Dr. Batson on the composition. 1086V/CruForge is a totally different animal: 1% carbon, high alloy, deep hardening, no hamon.
 
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Whenever you get tired of tripping over it let me know ;) Ill sure take it off your hands..
Danbo said:
I've got a large round piece of Howard Clark's 1086 out in the shop, that I got from him years ago. Big honkin piece, probably 2" round. Looks like a jail bar. I trip over it everytime I walk through the shop, in fact.
Click to expand...
 
Kelly Cupples sold me quite a few 1"X1" bars of 1086 for my forged integrals. Not sure if he has any bar stock and I didn't ask for the alloy make-up.

-M
 
I had heard once that kelly sold 1086..Ive bought a lot of 1065 from kelly bt never asked about the 1086..
 
And don't forget that CruForge V is WAY harder to hand sand than W2. ;)
lazlo said:
Howard's 1086M is awfully close to W2: it actually lands well within the AISI spec for W2: .85 - 1.5% C, .15 - .35% V, .1 - .4% Mn, .1 - .4% Si.

It's substantially harder to grind/polish than plain 1086 (I forged a wak from it in Howard's sword forging class). Some of Howard's sword polishers won't polish his 1086M swords, because it wears their waterstones out.

It was a custom melt for a company that was making bricklaying trowels. Howard saw it on the suppliers inventory, and ordered several thousand pounds of it. Turns out, the bricklaying company felt it was a proprietary alloy, and a pissing contest ensued. Howard got the 1086M, but it was a one-shot deal.


To add to the confusion, "1086V" was the working name for CruForge V, apparently from when Howard was working with Scott and Dr. Batson on the composition. 1086V/CruForge is a totally different animal: 1% carbon, high alloy, deep hardening, no hamon.
Click to expand...
 
Just for your info., the Chrome and Vanadium in the 1084 is in there because I called it. The formula was put together with the Mill's Metallurgist. Most Fine Grain steels only have .027 max Vanadium. I was planning on .04 Vanadium, but am glad I didn't. Most of the guys tell me that it's the toughest 1084 I've put out to date.

As for chrome, it can be extracted, but it is a pain in the ass and not much effort is used to take it out any more than the formula allows. When I had put the formula for the W-2, I told them to get it as low as possible. They managed to get it down to .069.
 
You did a bang up job on the 1084, sir!!! Nice and clean. even I can make relatively glitch free damascus with that stuff.:D
Aldo Bruno said:
Just for your info., the Chrome and Vanadium in the 1084 is in there because I called it. The formula was put together with the Mill's Metallurgist. Most Fine Grain steels only have .027 max Vanadium. I was planning on .04 Vanadium, but am glad I didn't. Most of the guys tell me that it's the toughest 1084 I've put out to date.

As for chrome, it can be extracted, but it is a pain in the ass and not much effort is used to take it out any more than the formula allows. When I had put the formula for the W-2, I told them to get it as low as possible. They managed to get it down to .069.
Click to expand...
 
Kentucky said:
Whenever you get tired of tripping over it let me know ;) Ill sure take it off your hands..
Click to expand...

Sent you a PM a couple of days ago. I've noticed you online here several time since, but I've gotten no reply. ???
 
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