Is 12C27 your friend?

[Runs With Scissors]

I've had a couple knives in 12C27 that I've been using for the past several months. One is a Helle Lapplander and the other a Bark River Settler. Both have been really good knives around the house and on day hikes. It's truthfully hard for me to see a performance difference between these and good ole 1095 Carbon. The Scandinavian knife makers certainly aren't afraid to use it, and BRK don't make no crappy knives. The two forementioned knives have treated me very well, and may become my designated "go to" woodsloafing knives.

I've seen the stainless steels knocked on so hard in other forums that I'm curious what you guys think. Do you trust the stuff?

(I hate posting specific knife questions here, but I do find alot more sensible answers in this corner of BF than I do in others)

 

[Boats]

You'll never get a sensible answer on stainless fixed blades from me. D2 is as close as I get to the stuff.

In my primitive, throwback, anachronistic, atavistic mind, stainless steels are an answer to a question only housewives asked, "Why can't my kitchen knives be shiny?"

There is simply no "insta-rust" environment I have ever encountered where a carbon steel blade, properly cared for, is at any serious disadvantage to a stainless one to make the inferior toughness, shock resistance, and edge holding of stainless worth having.

When I carry my Spydie Pacific Salt PE, I know I am doing so because I am feeling lazy around the ocean, not because it is otherwise a great blade steel because it is inferior to carbon steel in every respect save for corrosion resistance.

I prefer a well patinaed carbon knife every time, including Barkies. Oh yeah, my Scandinavian knives are carbon with black flats too.

 

[tarmix101]

I've had a couple knives in 12C27 that I've been using for the past several months. One is a Helle Lapplander and the other a Bark River Settler. Both have been really good knives around the house and on day hikes. It's truthfully hard for me to see a performance difference between these and good ole 1095 Carbon. The Scandinavian knife makers certainly aren't afraid to use it, and BRK don't make no crappy knives. The two forementioned knives have treated me very well, and may become my designated "go to" woodsloafing knives.

I've seen the stainless steels knocked on so hard in other forums that I'm curious what you guys think. Do you trust the stuff?

(I hate posting specific knife questions here, but I do find alot more sensible answers in this corner of BF than I do in others)

Out of the majority or stainless steels I have use ( I generally prefer carbon/tool steels to stainless) I have had very good luck with it. I to have used a Helle, and a BRKT both in 12C27.

Good stain resistance, very easy to touch up, and takes a razor edge. Admittedly it doesn't hold the edge as long is some of the "super" steels, but I'm my mind the ease of sharpening more than makes up for it.

I have used my Helle for some minor battoning with very good success. My $.02 is, don't listen to all the hype about "sub-standard" steels. Heat treat is almost everything, and if your are buying/using a knife from a good maker, you will be more than happy IMHO

 

[knifetester]

I have always been imressed with 12c27 and readily choose it over "superior" steels such as S30V and the like.

Try the Mora 2000, you will fall in love. . .

 

[Alberta Ed]

The folks at Sandvik tend to know what they're doing when it comes to blade steel. 12C27 is excellent stuff.

 

[Any Cal.]

My Scandi is 12C27 and I think it is my favorite steel so far. It takes a wicked edge easily. Because it is so easy to sharpen, I always keep it very sharp. Mine has been EDC since...well, I don't remember. 8 months or so.

 

[longbow50]

I'm another one that likes the 12c27. They got the combination down, because it compares favorably with a good carbon steel and there's no fuss with the rust.

 

[HoB]

Ed Schempp noted quite a while ago that natural materials usually do not have the abrasiveness of man-made materials, so if you use your knife mainly in the woods, it shouldn't come as surprise that it performs not much different than one of the highly abrasion resistant steels. And in comparison to carbon steels, well a carbon steel can be much tougher, but really it is not as if a normal stainless steel wouldn't stand up to most woodcrafting chores, chopping and being batoned are probably the worst case scenario. and 12C27 is among the tougher stainless steels, so.... ya, why not?

In the end I think you have to be the judge yourself anyways. If it works for you, then go with it!

 

[sodak]

The only knife that I have in this steel is a Mora 2000, and I haven't had much time with it yet, but I plan on testing it this summer!

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Just performed a little experiment involving my Tri-Flex Mora and a Stainless Mora.

http://www.ragweedforge.com/780.jpg

http://www.ragweedforge.com/760mg.jpg

I sharpened them both the exact same (both were new condition) same amount of strokes, on the same stones, strop, etc. They were both incredibly hair popping sharp, but I swear the stainless one was just a tiny bit sharper, no matter what I did.

I then took each knife and made exactly 50 lengthwise cuts down the pages of an old Cabelas catalog. followed by making eight lengthwise cuts down three soda cans each and fifteen equal length cuts down the sides of an old pizza box.

After that I whittled a scrap of 2x2 to a point with each knife.

I was VERY surprised to find that the stainless blade actually held a slightly better edge than the carbon blade. Not significantly, but I checked, double checked, and rechecked again, because I was doubting the results, but they remained the same. the Stainless one has held it's edge better so far.

I know it's not real scientific, but it's the best I can do....I would like to do some more destructive testing with them, but...I'm sorry to admit I think I'm too cheap. Batoning and light prying aint no big deal, but out and out abusing them abusing them....if I do it, it'll take me awhile to work up the courage. (sorry!)

Wierd, eh? The experimentation shall continue...

 

[Jos]

Yes, 12C27 is my friend.
Have a couple of Laguiole knives made from this steel. Works OK for me.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Good stain resistance, very easy to touch up, and takes a razor edge. Admittedly it doesn't hold the edge as long is some of the "super" steels, but I'm my mind the ease of sharpening more than makes up for it. QUOTE]

While I'm thinkin' about it...that particular comment brings me around to a bit of a sub-topic.

The newer, better, faster super steels....I can't help but to wonder if they've become enhanced past my personal style in the outdoors. Alot of the newer super steels take either zen like patience or some kinda willy whoop a$$ diamond impregnated sharpening system to touch up when I'm sitting in my lazy chair at home. To say they rely on modern sharpeners would be a bit of an exaggeration, but.....they are much easier to live with that way.

In comparison is the Douk Douk, the Nessmuk a friend made and gave me as well as a Puukko I made myself. all three of these knives are carbon steel hardened in the mid to lower 50's. I have used all three of them extensively through the course of a day or even a weekend without a them becoming uselessly dull, and I've touched all three of the knives up on whatever was in my enviroment. a coffee mug, river rock, tabasco bottle, back of another blade, etc. None of these knives have proven extensively frustrating in the last several months, and are infact usually pretty darn pleasant. (hence the reason I'm still carryin' them, I suppose....)

I could perhaps see myself getting pretty frustrated while cleaning game with one of those softer knives, just because you don't screw around with cleaning moose, caribou and such due to the fact that you typically want to get yourself and your animal the hell out of town before the sheriff (AKA grizzly bear) comes wandering around. But for the other 90% of woodsloafing and camping....they seem a viable option. I dunno. Maybe I've overthunk things so hard I've gone full circle from a though of brilliance back to dumber than a bag of hammers.....

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I was VERY surprised to find that the stainless blade actually held a slightly better edge than the carbon blade.

This would be expected if the hardness was similar as the sandvik stainless have a small amount of chromium carbides which will enhance the wear resistance plus the stainless blade could just be harder.

The newer, better, faster super steels....I can't help but to wonder if they've become enhanced past my personal style in the outdoors.

The are not enhanced for that type of work at all.

I I've seen the stainless steels knocked on so hard in other forums that I'm curious what you guys think.

In general, or 12C27 specifically?

-Cliff

 

[Tim-Gabz]

Close friend. I have a dagger, short sword and some Moras in it. Easy to sharpen and hone and great in the kitchen. They accomplish what they are designed to do very well. I also like 440c but it appears harder to sharpen.

I have some amazing forged carbon steel blades but they fail as they don't work with fruit. I eat alot of fruit.

 

[Fiddleback]

RWS, my friend, your impression is correct IMO. I'm a carbon steel guy too, but that 12c27 is good steel. I've got a few in it. I did a test like yours too with identical moras, and they came out neck and neck. I like 12c27 very well.

Yes, 12C27 is my friend.
Have a couple of Laguiole knives made from this steel. Works OK for me.

I'm a big fan of Laguiole knives too!! Never expected when I ordered my first that they would be so stout and beautiful!:thumbup:

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Andy, I was wondering if you'd done your testing yet and how the results had come out. my own results so far have been pretty surprising.

Cliff, I was referring more to stainless steels in general. When searching for 12C27 I found alot of positive blurbs, but no one really out and saying they'd out and out trust it in a truly remote enviroment, or an emergency.

Because every one knows good ole carbon is better than stainless, and 12C27 is pretty close to the bottom of the pile as far as stainless steel goes. errrr....supposedly.... I know it's most frequently compared to 440A which I've never seen anyone exactly turn backflips over.


Now what I'm curious about is which one of these is gonna hold up better once I baton them with a frozen log and horse the tips around a bit......

 

[Fiddleback]

12C27 is pretty close to the bottom of the pile as far as stainless steel goes. errrr....supposedly.... I know it's most frequently compared to 440A which I've never seen anyone exactly turn backflips over.

I've never heard that comparison, or that said at all.

 

[Runs With Scissors]

Heya Andy,
Here's a couple statements I C&Ped from the Steel FAQ by Joe Talmadge. Other quotes were in the random blurbs I picked up when searching general forums.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=368828

"420 and 420J represent the low end of stainless steels. They are very
stain resistant, and are tough due to being very soft. However, they
are also very weak, and not very wear resistant. Generally speaking,
expect these steels to lose their edge quickly through abrasion and
impaction. They are used in less-expensive knives due to their ease
of machining."


"440A and its relative peers, 425M, 420HC, 12C27, and 6A are the next
group. They can be hardened more than the previous group, for better
strength, and they are more wear resistant, though wear resistance is
just getting to the point of acceptability. 440A and 12C27 are the
leaders of this group, with solid heat treat both perform okay. 12C27
is said to be particularly pure and can perform very well when heat
treated properly. 6A trails those two steels, though with its
vanadium content, can take a razor edge. 425M and 420HC trail the
rest, though the highest-carbon versions of 420HC may compete with
next group."

425M - 12C27
"Both are very similar to 440A. 425M (.5% carbon) is used by Buck
knives. 12C27 (.6% carbon) is a Scandanavian steel used often in
Finish puukkos and Norwegian knives. 12C27 is said to perform very
well when carefully heat treated, due to its high purity. When done
right, it may be a slighter better choice than 440A and its ilk."

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff, I was referring more to stainless steels in general.

The main problem with stainless steels in the cutlery industry is that the ones used are not actually knife steels and vastly unsuitable for the types of knives used. It would be similar to using L6 in a salt water fillet knife. Even though it is a tool steel, and actually a very nice knife steel, it works horrible for that particular application. However the Sandvik series of stainless steels, 12C27M, 12C27, 13C26 are actually designed to be knife steels.

I've never heard that comparison, or that said at all.

It is quite common in North America, Engnath called 13C26/AEB-L as 440B class for example.

-Cliff

 

[Fiddleback]

Well there you go. Its still my only 'user' stainless steel. And I've never had issues with it. While, at the same time, recent 425M purchases have disapointed me vastly.