SSonnentag
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It just seems it doesn't leave much room for wear before the blade will become insecure.
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Is 90% lockup "normal" for the new 25's?
- Thread starter SSonnentag
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Serious question, don't kill me;
How does a full contact between the blade and the lockbar, would makes the knife insecure?
How does a full contact between the blade and the lockbar, would makes the knife insecure?
SSonnentag
Stay Sharp!
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Once the blade makes contact with the oposite scale, there is no longer anything wedged against the blade. This means the blade would get progressively more and more vertical play in it.
What does the wear mark on the tang look like?
I don't think the center-line of the ceramic ball is aligned with the edge of the lock bar, so the lock bar may appear to travel farther than you're used to. The contact point of the ceramic ball it what matters.
I don't think the center-line of the ceramic ball is aligned with the edge of the lock bar, so the lock bar may appear to travel farther than you're used to. The contact point of the ceramic ball it what matters.
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This!
SSonnentag
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Indeed, this is correct. The contact point of the ceramic ball sits ~1.5mm inside the edge of the lock bar. Your late 90% lock up is an illusion. 
kennywoo
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If something seems off, check all the screws...make sure they are tight. I say this because I did have a screw or two on my 25 that needed to be tightened up. Great thing about CRK is you get the tools to easily remedy this. 
However, as others have stated the ceramic ball can give the appearance of later lock-up...nothing to fret over.
However, as others have stated the ceramic ball can give the appearance of later lock-up...nothing to fret over.
nyefmaker
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The 25 has the same lockup design as the umnumzaan. I have had umnumzaans with the same 90% lockup and never had any issues. Since the lockup point of the ceramic ball is roughly in the middle of the lockbar, it gives the illusion of the lockup being much deeper than it is. So in reality, its more in the 50-60% range, while the lockbar being closer to the opposite frame is in the 90% range.............If still in doubt, you can always call CRK as they would be glad to answer any questions you may have.
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And Reeve lock bars wear in very slowly compared to other Framelocks I've owned. I've had had a Sebenza for seven years, an Umnumzaan for four, I've used both very well, and neither has shown any real change in lockup engagement.
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The lockup seems spot on IMO.
From this thread: Sebenza-25-lock-up
Here is my post, some is applicable:
The ceramic ball lockup is supposed to look late, but in in reality is not.
"Those who have followed the nearly 25 years that the Sebenza has been around know we continually make small improvements, alterations, advances to our knives. None of these changes are made to follow a trend, to keep up with the Jones or to tick off our customers. They are done to improve performance, safety or production. That we make a change to the Umnumzaan should not come as a surprise.
The disc has been added to the Umnumzaan to prevent the reduction of tension on the lock. Because the shape of the Umnumzaan handle is a little different than that of the Sebenza, it takes a different technique to open and close. We have found some customers are not willing to learn the difference or perhaps they don’t recognize the difference but, whatever the reason, they think it is necessary to modify the lock tension, thinking the knife will open more easily. This simply makes the knife unsafe. We have had several Umnumzaans returned to us because of lock issues – almost always the customer denies having modified the lock. We can see what has been done, and are put between a rock and a hard place as we don’t want to call out the customer for not telling the truth. The disc is a solution to prevent potentially unsafe modifications.
Please note this disc is not a lock stabilizer as it has been called in some posts. It is simply in place to prevent the lock bar from being pushed out to reduce tension. Our locks are fitted properly to very close tolerances and do not need to be stabilized. And to save further speculation, the disc is press fit into the handle. It is made of 303 stainless steel, and is sandblasted along with the rest of the handle. Because it is not titanium, the sandblasted finish looks different.
Will it change further? Quite possibly. What might these changes be? No idea at this time.
It will be a while before you see Umnumzaans other than the Wilson Startac with this disc. This has to do with our on-hand inventory of machined handles.
We are not planning to add the lock override protection disc to the Sebenza. We do not have the issue of lock modification by customers to the same degree as we do with the Umnumzaan.
Before the question is asked here is a quick reminder of the difference in how to open an Umnumzaan and a Sebenza.
Umnumzaan: slide your thumb straight forward, parallel with the handle, pushing the lug with the top center of your thumb.
Sebenza: push the lug out sideways in a sweeping motion with the side of your thumb.
Since there has been renewed discussion about Idaho Made in this thread, you might find it interesting to note that since March this year, the value of our back orders has almost quadrupled. This would indicate there are not too many concerns about the Idaho Made marking.
We appreciate your loyalty and enthusiastic conversation. We know we can't please all of the people all of the time!
Anne"
further searches:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/701337-Umnumzaan-quot-lock-up-question
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tion-for-those-who-carry-and-use-an-umnumzaan
And then the cherry on the cake from the thread: Some Words from Chris http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/730951-Some-words-from-Chris......
"The lock should engage at between 50% and 75% of travel. With the Umnumzaan, because the interface between the blade and the lock bar is a ceramic ball, it is the ball that must be at 50 – 75%. This will give the visual that the lock bar is further over than with a Sebenza."
I have yet to hear of a single lock with the ceramic ball interface that gives any problems. Since the release of the Umnumzaan, despite people complaints of it being "late" no one has had one wear out, disengage or develop any "sticky" lock. There has been only reports of people overextending the lock resulting in problems and from there the CR over extension tab/disc or whatever was applied.
So, in short. Dont mess with what works and use it.
From this thread: Sebenza-25-lock-up
Here is my post, some is applicable:
The ceramic ball lockup is supposed to look late, but in in reality is not.
Some of you wanted to see macr shots of the Umnumzaan after seeing the Sebenza shots in my other thread and,well, with such awesome feedback how could I resist.
So in no particular order here they are....let me know what you think.
Also, I was shooting outside and as luck would have it it started to rain and so you may see a drop or two of water in some of the shots. Luckily it's all stainless!
Added a little canned air to the perforated washer while trying to combat the rain drops and inadvertantly created a 'spinner'.
"Those who have followed the nearly 25 years that the Sebenza has been around know we continually make small improvements, alterations, advances to our knives. None of these changes are made to follow a trend, to keep up with the Jones or to tick off our customers. They are done to improve performance, safety or production. That we make a change to the Umnumzaan should not come as a surprise.
The disc has been added to the Umnumzaan to prevent the reduction of tension on the lock. Because the shape of the Umnumzaan handle is a little different than that of the Sebenza, it takes a different technique to open and close. We have found some customers are not willing to learn the difference or perhaps they don’t recognize the difference but, whatever the reason, they think it is necessary to modify the lock tension, thinking the knife will open more easily. This simply makes the knife unsafe. We have had several Umnumzaans returned to us because of lock issues – almost always the customer denies having modified the lock. We can see what has been done, and are put between a rock and a hard place as we don’t want to call out the customer for not telling the truth. The disc is a solution to prevent potentially unsafe modifications.
Please note this disc is not a lock stabilizer as it has been called in some posts. It is simply in place to prevent the lock bar from being pushed out to reduce tension. Our locks are fitted properly to very close tolerances and do not need to be stabilized. And to save further speculation, the disc is press fit into the handle. It is made of 303 stainless steel, and is sandblasted along with the rest of the handle. Because it is not titanium, the sandblasted finish looks different.
Will it change further? Quite possibly. What might these changes be? No idea at this time.
It will be a while before you see Umnumzaans other than the Wilson Startac with this disc. This has to do with our on-hand inventory of machined handles.
We are not planning to add the lock override protection disc to the Sebenza. We do not have the issue of lock modification by customers to the same degree as we do with the Umnumzaan.
Before the question is asked here is a quick reminder of the difference in how to open an Umnumzaan and a Sebenza.
Umnumzaan: slide your thumb straight forward, parallel with the handle, pushing the lug with the top center of your thumb.
Sebenza: push the lug out sideways in a sweeping motion with the side of your thumb.
Since there has been renewed discussion about Idaho Made in this thread, you might find it interesting to note that since March this year, the value of our back orders has almost quadrupled. This would indicate there are not too many concerns about the Idaho Made marking.
We appreciate your loyalty and enthusiastic conversation. We know we can't please all of the people all of the time!
Anne"
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...y-Umnumzaan!-Lock-Bar-Question?highlight=lock
further searches:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/701337-Umnumzaan-quot-lock-up-question
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...tion-for-those-who-carry-and-use-an-umnumzaan
And then the cherry on the cake from the thread: Some Words from Chris http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/730951-Some-words-from-Chris......
"The lock should engage at between 50% and 75% of travel. With the Umnumzaan, because the interface between the blade and the lock bar is a ceramic ball, it is the ball that must be at 50 – 75%. This will give the visual that the lock bar is further over than with a Sebenza."
I have yet to hear of a single lock with the ceramic ball interface that gives any problems. Since the release of the Umnumzaan, despite people complaints of it being "late" no one has had one wear out, disengage or develop any "sticky" lock. There has been only reports of people overextending the lock resulting in problems and from there the CR over extension tab/disc or whatever was applied.
So, in short. Dont mess with what works and use it.
Professor
Gold Member
- Joined
- Apr 6, 1999
- Messages
- 3,427
I'm on board with the positioning of the lockbar vs the ceramic ball on the Umnun and the 25, but if the lockbar on either bottoms out on the other side, even if the ceramic ball contact point still has room to wear against the blade tang ramp, isn't this sorta the same problem in that bottoming out means no more room for wear?
Perhaps the slower wear characteristics of the ceramic ball make for equal or longer longevity either way. I've always been fascinated by this topic when it comes to frame locks.
Prof.
Perhaps the slower wear characteristics of the ceramic ball make for equal or longer longevity either way. I've always been fascinated by this topic when it comes to frame locks.
Prof.