Is a the hamon on a forged knife permanent or does it disappear?

D

Dan the Man

Joined
Jun 18, 2004
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I have never had a knife with a hamon. I have seen some beautiful examples of them on blades here. I am trying to figure out if they are permanent like a clad blade or if as time passes or wear takes place will they disappear? Thanks in advance for helping me understand.
 
They can become extremely faint if polishing is aggressive, but the difference between hard and soft heat treat does not change for hundreds of years.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Thank you for the information. Some of the hamons look really spectacular but I use my equipment. I take as good of care of it as I can (use not abuse) but I use what I purchase. The thought of messing up something as pretty as that hamon has prevented me from purchasing one. My other knives have held up really well and I one of them is laminated. I just purchased a couple of San Mai knives which I thought were really nice maybe down the road I will try a forged blade with a hamon. It would just be a sin to screw up something a craftsman spent so much time bringing to life.
 
I have a couple kitchen knives with hamon and they see hard use. The blades change color and go through the patina process, but hamon is always visible.
 
Don Hanson III said:
I have a couple kitchen knives with hamon and they see hard use. The blades change color and go through the patina process, but hamon is always visible.
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Thanks for this post, Don.

The patina thing has been in my head for a little while. I have a couple custom fixed blades coming in soon that are going to have a hamon (a first for me) and I was wondering how visible it would be after the patina starts to develop. Glad to hear is stays visible as they will see regular use.
 
evanPGH said:
Thanks for this post, Don.

The patina thing has been in my head for a little while. I have a couple custom fixed blades coming in soon that are going to have a hamon (a first for me) and I was wondering how visible it would be after the patina starts to develop. Glad to hear is stays visible as they will see regular use.
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You're welcome!

A patina is a wonderful thing, always changing... :cool:
 
Don't confuse hamon with patina ! Hamon is the microstructure , martinsite ,pearlite etc and doesn't change , it's in the steel. Patina is a surface thing ,oxides etc , and can change .You can polish away the patina but the hamon is there even if you polish away the surface effects.
 
mete said:
Don't confuse hamon with patina ! Hamon is the microstructure , martinsite ,pearlite etc and doesn't change , it's in the steel. Patina is a surface thing ,oxides etc , and can change .You can polish away the patina but the hamon is there even if you polish away the surface effects.
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Yes Mete, Very true.

I brought up patina, because it happens on the type of steel used to achieve a hamon. Just wanted to point out that
patina will not cover up a hamon, but in many cases will enhance hamon.
 
Mete,

While it may not be germane here, I was under the impression that older Japanese swords could be polished to the point of removing the visible effects of the hamon altogether, making it much less desirable. I have no experience with this, and have never seen it, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night :)

Seth
 
Bladeplay74 said:
Mete,

While it may not be germane here, I was under the impression that older Japanese swords could be polished to the point of removing the visible effects of the hamon altogether, making it much less desirable. I have no experience with this, and have never seen it, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night :)

Seth
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This is correct. As STeven said in an earlier post excessive polishing can heavily "fade" the hamon.
 
Bladeplay74 said:
Mete,

While it may not be germane here, I was under the impression that older Japanese swords could be polished to the point of removing the visible effects of the hamon altogether, making it much less desirable. I have no experience with this, and have never seen it, but I did stay at a holiday inn express last night :)

Seth
Click to expand...

evanPGH said:
This is correct. As STeven said in an earlier post excessive polishing can heavily "fade" the hamon.
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Yes, but the hamon is still there and always will be.
 
I have always had this question in the back of my mind. I knew I would have an answer when I attained such a knife though. Haha
 
Polishing with respect to hamon is probably a misnomer. It suggests the use of creams and pastes and a buffer to get a mirror polish (which obscures the hamon). Stone polishes are actually a series of different grit sized scratches, retained in the harder martensitic steel of the edge while the softer steel in the transition area polishes out with successively finer grits. The hazuya stones used to give a "frosty" hamon seem to correspond to around a 600 grit. The Jizuya stones used to darken the area behind the hamon and bring out some of the "Activities" seems to correspond to around 4000-6000 grit micromesh. Buffing will ruin a japanese sword polish by causing the hamon to "fade" and also by rounding off the edges of the grind lines potentially making them wonky.
 
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