Is an HAK legal in WA?

Q

qben

Joined
Dec 16, 2006
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I am considering a Front Sight Hide Away Knife (HAK). Learn more about them on www.hideawayknife.com. Sorry I couldn't figure out how to post a picture. My question is whether or not it would be legal to carry in WA. I would not conceal it, my question is particularly because of the part of the knife that covers the knuckles of the first 2 fingers. It would be particulary useful to me because it allow use of both hands without putting the knife down. Thanks in advance for your reply.

We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
George Orwell
 
i read the wa section, and it seems to me you are ok to carry it concealed. it becomes illegal in various public places such as schools, cts, etc, or if drawn or displayed for the purposes of intimidation, assault, etc.

the law is a little confusing, so you may also want to contact local pd to get their interpretation and find out what local municipal sections say.
 
Do you have a link to "the WA section" you are referring to? It would be great if I could carry it concealed because I might be hard pressed to find more room on my belt. Thanks for the quick reply.

We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.
George Orwell
 
So this would not be something that falls under "metal knuckles?" Also, I might just be misunderstanding, but "Furtively carries with intent to conceal any dagger, dirk, pistol, or other dangerous weapon." Seems that it would apply if the knife were concealed. Can you explain why I could conceal it. Thanks, Sorry if I'm being difficult.
 
dont think this would classify as metal knuckles, that is generally used to describe an item used to provide extra force when punching or protect the knuckles from impact.

furtively is subjective, and usually implies ilicit intent.

under the seattle muni section the dangerous knife definition says it must be over 3.5 inches. it qualifies as a fixed blade, but i dont see anything that covers the hak, since it is so small.

i cant find a definition for dirk or dagger, but the hak doesnt appear to apply here either, again due to its size.
 
So I understand that if it does not meet the dangerous knife definition, it does not fall into the "dangerous weapon" category. That clarifies things. Thanks a lot.

If anyone else interprets things differently or has a differing point of view, please contribute.
 
dangerous knife definition is under the seattle muni section,

state code does not have definition, at least not that i could find. muni def may not apply here.
 
Unless there is caselaw that exempts such items (and I doubt there is) I think a reasonable argument can be made that a HAK is a form of metal knuckes.

I own a HAK, and I like it, but I would not be surprised to be charged with carrying metal knuckes or carrying a dangerous knife in certain jurisdictions with vague statutes.

Plus, some HAKs look more deadly than others, so consider that when ordering.

My 2 cents

Seth
 
good points slip lock, guess i was thinking of the hak as solely a knife.

the circumstances surrounding the finding of an hak by an officer will also play a large role in determining how it fits into the knife laws.
 
the name, the look and what it is all adds up to something that'll give you more trouble than its worth, imho.
 
qben,

As sliplock (hi Seth!) noted, an aggressive prosecutor may make a colorable argument that the HAK is a form of metal knuckles, and thus proscribed by RCW 9.41.250.

In addition, a conservative reading of the Seattle Municipal Code shows that fixed blades (of any blade length) fall under the definition of "dangerous knife" (See, Seattle, Wash. Muni. Code Sec. 12A.14.010 (A) and (B)), and thus:

Seattle – “Dangerous knife” includes any fixed bladed knife, regardless of blade length, and any other knife with blade greater than three and a half inches long. Carry, whether open or concealed, of dangerous knife prohibited. See, SEATTLE, WASH., MUNICIPAL CODE § 12A.14.080 (2006). Exceptions exist for licensed hunters and fishermen while hunting or fishing, and for lawful occupational use if carried openly. See, id. at § 12A.14.100.
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(From Knife Laws of the Fifty States: A Guide for the Law-Abiding Traveler, p. 188)

Thus, if you live in or visit Seattle with any regularity, the HAK may not be a good choice. Other cities may have similar restrictions.

Stay safe, and Happy Holidays!

david.
 
FYI to all, "Knife Laws . . .", as cited above, is a terrific resource, and will answer most of the questions posted on this forum.

Well done, David.
 
dalew, are the fairgrounds in a county area? if so, that would explain the contradiction. or the fairgrounds have their own regulation at the urging of those running the fairs.

the neck knife law probably is due to the fact that few would carry anything much larger than the section prohibits.

and most knife laws, as you point out, are due to perception rather than fact.
 
DaleW said:
The Seattle Center is the site of the 1962 World's Fair and on the northern edge of the downtown area-- six miles inside the cty limits. I assume the difference in regulations was clerical and a court would throw it out if the issue was pressed. I thought it was interesting to note and illustrate the sloppiness in lawmaking. I am certainly no legal professional and I spotted it. The variables between counties and municipalities makes it even more bizzarre, where six feet over a political boundary could make you a criminal.


I was using a neck knife as an example, as many kneck knife blades are smaller than 3.5". The Seattle laws prohibit carrying a fixed blade of any kind, regardless of length, and allow folders up to 3.5". I think the distinction is a waste of time. Like I said, if you get stuck with a 3.5" folder, you will bleed that same as if you got stuck with a 3.5" fixed blade.

Bottom line, most people don't think about protecting themselves and anyone who enters into the politics of it ends up looking like a paranoid case. What method if denial people use when reading history or the daily newspaper is beyond me.

I walked out of work the other day and a gomer was going through the outside ashtray for cigarette butts. I *looked* at him as I walked out the door and he went beserk on me, cussing and screaming and waving his arms around. He called me a faggot, which made me laugh and that really got him going. He flollowed me to the crosswalk, cussing all the way and when I stopped for the light, he charged me. He stopped short when I offered to share 3.5" of very legal and razor sharp Casper-designed stainless steel with his right eye socket (he found out I'm left handed). He took off, calling me a queer because I wouldn't fight with my fists and had to rely on a knife. The guy standing next to me at the crosswalk said, "Dude, I thought that guy was going to hurt you! He sure looked surprised!" I hope he had to change his underwear :D
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sounds like he did need a change of underwear. that is if his werent already soiled, if he had any in the first place.

there are often laws pertaining to specific areas, ie, courts, city/county buildings, and it seems fairgrounds. there may seem to be no logic in the added exemption, check the dates the laws were inacted.

there may have also been no check for existing knife laws when writing the fairgrounds section.
 
I don't see the inconsistency in an area of a city, in this case the fair grounds, enacting codes that prohibit knives otherwise legal in the surrounding city. An inconsistency would be this fairgrounds allowing knives larger than the surrounding city, as the fair grounds codes would be in contradiction to the city codes (as opposed to complimenting them). As was mentioned earlier, courthouses and municipal buildings prohibit knives that are legal in the surrounding city.

Carrying a 3.5 inch folding knife open and locked, in a sheath will get you into as much trouble as carrying a fixed blade. Some states and municipalities go as far as to explicitly prohibit any knife tha can be drawn in a deployed state (fixed, folders carried open, waved knives, etc). At any rate, a folder carried open will *most likely* be prosecuted as a fixed blade.

I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV, but I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.
 
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