is ats-34 worth $375

kalama

kalama

Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
1,226
i seen a awesome design from a custom knifemaker,but i dont care for the steel choice ats-34,how tough is this steel i personaly never used it. it's price is almost $400,here is some specs The blade was heat treated with a deep cryogenic quench. 3/16" blade thickness and 1 1/8" blade depth. ATS-34 @ 60-61 RC,5 1/8"blade lenth,it will be used as a hunting/woods knife.what do you think?thanks for your info
 
Some very expensive knives use steels of relative equal quality like CM 154 CPM 154, S30V etc. I am sure the steel is not the cost justifying $375, its the labor time, skill, craftsmanship, reputation and design of the maker.

I have $40 and $400 knifes made of this and S30V steel. Proof that blade steel wasn't the defining criteria for price of blade.

Nothing wrong with ATS 34. Who beats up and needs uber steel except for bragging rights in a $375 custom? Not like you have utility for it functionally!!
 
pay less attention to the knife steel and more to the knife maker/heat treater. a good heat treat can turn good steel into great steel.
 
ATS34 has been superceeded by more advanced metallurgy, but it is still a fantastic alloy in certain applicatons. Supurb craftsmanship can never be superceeded. I suggest that you place your primary concern squarely on the intended usage, with the design and execution of the knife to support that task. Then, consider the materials used in the manufacture as a secondary issue to support the primary goal adequately. Steel alone does not make a knife, but the skilled usage of it in a design does.
 
singularity35 said:
I'd at least want a powder metal for the price.
Click to expand...
People buy custom knives for different reasons. How about a 1095 or 440C blade for $1500? They do exist and people are happy to pay that kind of money for craftsmanship. Nothing wrong with that.
 
As stated earlier, the price is more about the craftsmanship, not the steel. In any case, ATS-34 is a fine steel. Especially when heat treated at or above 60 RC. Reminds me quite a bit of VG-10 at this hardness. It will take an extremely fine edge (it's fantastic on thin blades with high hollow grinds) and takes a very high polish as well.

Personally, I've learned to love the stuff. I spent this afternoon taking the edge up another notch on one of my ATS-34 folders. It's really fun to see just how sharp it'll get, with just a little more TLC.
 
RxEnergy said:
People buy custom knives for different reasons. How about a 1095 or 440C blade for $1500? They do exist and people are happy to pay that kind of money for craftsmanship. Nothing wrong with that.
Click to expand...

Agreed, but I was talking about me. ;)
 
Brian Sargent said:
Japanese ATS-34 is a copy of American 154CM. It was copied to the exact specs right after Crucibles patent had expired.
Click to expand...
Interesting. If that is the case, then why did American manufacturers use ATS-34 prior to switching to 154CM?
I'm talking Benchmade, Buck, Rekat, and others. Wouldn't it make more sense to use 154CM straight from the start?
Really, I'm not sure about the history of this, but if you know more on the subject, please educate me.

PS and the specs are not exact: sulfur and silicon content is slightly different
 
You're paying for the maker's time and work. Not the steel. There's a difference in steel price but it's not hundreds of dollars for one knife, more like $10- $20 at the very most. That said, ATS-34 is not a bad steel, neither is 440c. I think they're very good with Cryo treatment. I still remember a time when these were top notch stainless steels.
 
RxEnergy said:
Interesting. If that is the case, then why did American manufacturers use ATS-34 prior to switching to 154CM?
I'm talking Benchmade, Buck, Rekat, and others. Wouldn't it make more sense to use 154CM straight from the start?
Really, I'm not sure about the history of this, but if you know more on the subject, please educate me.

PS and the specs are not exact: sulfur and silicon content is slightly different
Click to expand...

I don't speak for American knife makers ... you should ask them.

ATS-34 was pushed into the market and was cheaper.

I'm not here to argue with you RxEnergy, this story in common knowledge in the knife industry.

Mike Stewart said:
AST-34 and 154 CM are not just essentially the same - - they are the Same.

Crucible Steel invented their Cintered metal process and 154CM was one of the First that they patented and made.

it was an instant hit for knives.

When the Crucible patent was up - Hitachi - Copied the Formula and the Cintering method and copied the Crucible 154cm - they called their Copy cat version ATS-34.

Hitachi did a great job of marketing their new copy and it actually outsold the 154CM for a number of years.

Then there was this thing called the internet.

People began to research this stuff and BINGO - Crucible's 154CM and CPM154 are the top dogs in that midrange High Carbon - Mid Range Alloy Stainless Steels.
Click to expand...
 
I didn't want to argue, just tried to think logically. Thanks for that quote from Mike Stewart, I did some searching myself and found more on the subject:

FK said:
My understanding is that Crucible developed 154CM for aircraft jet engines in the 1970's,,,,,,Bob Loveless and others discovered it was a great knife steel and it became popular with the custom makers.

Crucible discontinued 154CM due to alloy changes in the jet engine designs. Bob Loveless approached the Hitachi Steel sales dept in CA and convinced them into making a heat (large ladel of steel) with the 154CM chemical composition. At that time Hitachi gave its product a new designation of ATS-34.

About 10-12 years ago, with laser cutting equipment development and lower prices, the mass production factories could now economically use ATS-34 (Benchmade was a leader in that area) and the steel became popular with higher priced factory knives.

Crucible Steel saw the market improve demand for small heats of specialty steels and re-introduced their old alloy 154CM and it is now available from a USA steel mill.

The alloys are identical,,,,,any performance comparisons are due to individual heat treatment processes. Some will speculate the new 154CM is cleaner (less impurities, etc) ,,,,only a metallurgy lab with mass spectrograph equipment could determine that statement.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the history lesson
JC_cheers.gif
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top