Is Cold Steel being a bully?

Chang

Chang

Joined
Oct 9, 1998
Messages
1,767
http://www.coldsteel.com/4riposte.html

I have a suggestion for Cold Steel. Since ya'll want to compare your knives to the Gerber Covert, why don't you actually compare them instead of talking about your wonderful
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knives, then say that it is better than the Gerber Covert, and then ask a question about the Gerber Covert's ability to perform like your products, and then "forget" to answer your own question.

Cold Steel seems to be a bunch of bullies to me. I'm very inclined not to buy any of their knives after I read this. Made me sick. This sort of article is simply not nice. Am I the only one who feels that Lynn and Cold Steel have crossed the line with their insulting article that doesn't even give a complete comparison? I really suggest they follow their own advise.

No, again they just make a blanket claim.
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Yes, Cold Steel. And you also made a blanket claim by not showing the Gerber's performance.

This means your Covert will actually have to "beat" the cutting power of the Tanto Point Voyager, not merely duplicate it. Come on. Prove your Covert is "best".
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Well, CS, you started it, I suggest you finish it. Why don't you prove the Covert to be not as good as your Voyager?

Wait a minute now Gerber®. We have a couple more knives that will compete with your Covert's claim of being the "best" and
setting "the standard for tactical folding knives".
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By compete do you mean another list of hype for your knife? Before you move on to your other knives, I'd prefer you finish with your first comparison. What I see is not a comparison. A comparison is not an unanswered question.

Now, in 1999 we find the market absolutely flooded with a host of knife manufacturers challenging our claim of being the best without providing a single shred of evidence! What these manufacturers have found out is the same thing President Bill Clinton
has relied on for most of his political career, namely that if you tell the public something loud enough and long enough, a great many people will believe you.
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I must agree with you on something. President Clinton is quite an a$$. However, you seem to be the one mimicking him. Namely, that if you tell the public something loud enough and long enough, a great many people will believe you. You've done this for many years now, and for a while I actually started to believe you!
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-Chang, Asian Janitorial Apparatus
 
In this case it is not CS who has to prove anything, Gerber is the one who made the claim and CS simply stated several specific performance levels that Gerber would need to achieve in order for them to have (in CS's opinion) the "best" .

I would actually like to see more of this kind of thing. There are far too many descriptions using words like "best" without any baseline for performance given. If you simply state "This is the best cutting knife I have ever owned" for example. What does that really tell anyone. You could have only owned that one knife.

However I don't think CS is in much of a position to lead performance wise, and in fact the double talk about the abilities of their knives is something that makes me disregard their blades completely - but i can understand their take on this specific issue.

-Cliff
 
Advertising lingo can be VERY slippery.
Superlatives such as best can actually be used more casually than comparitives such as better.
This is because on the level playing field all products are considered to be equally good. Therefore, they are all the 'best'.
However, if you say your product is better than another (thereby making a direct comparison) then you must prove it.
I am not attacking or defending anyone here. I am simply pointing out what's going on.
 
It's called aggressive advertising. If I avoided buying products whose advertising offended me, I'd have been stuck in the woods with Ted Kaczinski.

CS puts out a video showing how their knives perform. It's fun to watch, even if it goes on too long. How many other companies demonstrate the level of performance and abuse you should or should not expect?

The best knife I ever carried on a daily basis was probably my Gerber Bolt-Action. Compact, tight, sharp, and so smooth it opened with a thumb-flick -- that's right, it had no stud or disc or hole. On the other hand, the abuse to which I've subjected my CS Vaquero Grande astounds me; it hardly shows wear, even to the serrations. I chop with it like a kukri. A quick lick with a pocket steel keeps it going.

Most of the hype all around is beside the point. Up to a certain level, we expect our knives to look good, slice bread, remain reasonably sharp, not wobble or fall apart in daily use. Most good factory knives, from $50 to $150, will achieve this standard.

If you need something tougher, there are other, more expensive, options.
 
Bully is not the word that comes to my mind when I think of Lynn Thompson ... the word that comes to my mind is clown. Riposte is always amusing. My knives are the best and I can prove it -- see, one of my knives is actually better than this
Frost -- that proves mine are the best!!! Now he's comparing to Gerber -- LOL!

The video is even more amusing. My knife can penetrate a sheet of toilet paper!!! Look, it penetrated all the way through a sheet of toilet paper and it isn't damaged at all!!!

Never a dull moment....

-Cougar :{)


[This message has been edited by Cougar Allen (edited 06-21-2000).]
 
Comrade, I live just down the road from you and frankly, I'm much more aggravated about the price of gas here in the midwest than I am about CS woofing. Bruce
 
Bully? Nah. Clown? I like that one.
Gerber asked for it. Calling their A-F the "best" is idiotic. Mine is probably the worst knife I own. Do they seriously think it compares to a custom Elishewitz? Lightfoot? Emerson? Tighe? What about a $5000 Walker? How about a real Moran? How about a talonite blade with an axis or rolling lock? Or even a Sebenza with an integral lock and BG42? Do Gerber and CS's plastic and stainless wonders outperform any of these? Get serious. Gerber's own hype was offensive and they should expect to get trashed. Now Cold Steel is guilty of the same nonsense. Video or no, calling their production stainless knives the best is also pretty offensive and ridiculous. Maybe these guys deserve each other. Let's wait for the Busse Infi nuclear folder and watch the real fun happen!
 
Esav, that video may be fun to watch, and they do their level best to show that their knives will cut free hanging rope and cut through oil drums, but they won't warranty their blades for anything close to that stuff. It is quite a circus act though.

HJK, you think the Nuclear Folder will be anywhere near CS or Gerber's price range?

I didn't think so either. When these companies come out shouting "Best", I always assume there is an implied "In it's price range" following shortly thereafter.

Of course I only assume that so I can keep from laughing at most of the hype out there.
 
Vel,
Good point. Price is a legitimate factor and probably implied. But many folks don't make that inference and assume that "best" means best, period. I think alot of people are misled. The Busse folder won't cost the same as a Vanquero, but I'm sure it will be a fair price for what you get. Whatever the price, it won't be easy to actually buy. But CS will still advertise their folders as the "best".
 
Anyone out there want to test their Covert
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? I suppose it is Gerber's responsibility to have tested their own knife, but Cold Steel IMHO is still crossing the line by picking on them individually.

Of course, this sort of challenge promotes a better product. Competition is good. As a capitalist Taiwanese, I know this.
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Has anyone actually rammed a Voyager into a car and actally kept a point on it? Just curious. This proof video seems a little bogus.

-Chang the Asian Janitorial Apparatus
 
Right now there's a grand total of two megafolders out there, the CSVG and the Sifu. If you drop the blade length standard to 5" the Voyagers/Gunsite qualify, but they're not as good as the VG so it's immaterial.

Do we even need to talk about VG versus Sifu?

Didn't think so. Even the "lowly" ATS34 Sifus are better steel than AUS-8, the newer D2-Ms will be a whole 'nuther universe and probably the second Sifu I ever own - I'll finally retire "number one" from carry and maybe send it to Frank Recupero
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. Blade steel aside, the rest of a Sifu is far ahead of CS, in lockwork, overall strength, combat ergonomics, everything.

That's not to say Lynn doesn't sell a good knife for the price. You'll almost always get your money's worth. But "best"? Heck no.

To Gerber's credit, that secondary lock latch on their linerlocks are a very desirable feature. To bad they didn't use it on the 4.5" version A/F, I'd consider it as a backup. Linerlocks are easy to make "smooth", difficult to make "reliable" in mass production at modest prices, but the secondary latch gets around that problem to a large degree. Do one 5" or more in ATS34 and they might really have a nice piece.

Jim
 
Another perspective. Is ATS-34 "better" than AUS-8? Depends. Certainly it's harder to sharpen and easier to get rusty than AUS-8. It's also pretty brittle for many cutlery uses. Some of these things depend on one's preferences or needs. For many applications AUS-8 is better. Absolutes are usually pretty hard to defend.

Is the SIFU "better" than a Voyager? Most likely, but it's twice the price. That isn't a fair comparison.

I'm not defending anybody's advertising. Just adding some additional perspective into the mix. Take care.

------------------
Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
 
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