Is CV brittle?

H

HMC

Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
147
I over heard a gentleman at Penn State saying that carbon or CV steel was brittle. If this is true, in what way? I've not had any problems with my CV blades, nor do the Amish from what I gather. I would think that as hard as it is, Bucks stainless would be brittle, but I could be wrong.:foot:
 
I've not heard this before.

I've seen too many sodbusters and little finns with decades of wear on them from hard use, to beleive it. Of course you can break any knife blade if you abuse it hard enough.
 
Personal opinion alert:

Any steel can be brittle if the maker screws up the heat treat. Hardened steel is brittle until it has been tempered; That's what tempering does.

In general, and in my experience, CV or 1095 as used by reputable makers is not brittle. The edge can deform or even roll a little from use, but can be brought back with hones or sharpeners.

In fact, I think of carbon steels as much more "elastic" than most stainless steels. I have a super-duper SV30 bladed Spyderco that got a big chip in the edge the first time it ran into a nail. I've never had a carbon bladed knife do that.

I believe the difficult part for steel makers is trying to find an alloy that is elastic enough to not be brittle, yet retain enough hardness to hold an edge. You make it too soft and it'll be plenty elastic, but it'll dull quickly, too. You can put a sharp edge on a tomato can lid, but it won't survive much cutting. I see all these "steels of the month" as attempts to get something that will take and hold an edge as well as carbon, without having the care and maintenance issues that carbon does.

Now, will someone who really knows this stuff tell me where I'm wrong in my assumptions?

-- Sam
 
I did up a steer some years back that had a broadhead in him. Some fool shot an arrow in him & never told the farmer. I was using my Soddy, I chipped the broadhead blade, but only scratched the surface of mine. No actual damage was done.
Now if you were to drop a CV blade that's different I've seen soddies brake (actually shatter) if dropped blade first into stone.
 
jpvjr said:
I did up a steer some years back that had a broadhead in him. Some fool shot an arrow in him & never told the farmer. I was using my Soddy, I chipped the broadhead blade, but only scratched the surface of mine. No actual damage was done.
Now if you were to drop a CV blade that's different I've seen soddies brake (actually shatter) if dropped blade first into stone.
Click to expand...
You didn't tell us what steel is in your soddie's blade.
 
HMC said:
I over heard a gentleman at Penn State saying that carbon or CV steel was brittle. If this is true, in what way? I've not had any problems with my CV blades, nor do the Amish from what I gather. I would think that as hard as it is, Bucks stainless would be brittle, but I could be wrong.:foot:
Click to expand...

In what context did he say this? Was he talking about knives?
Carbon steel and Chrome Vanadium alloy steel (CV Steel) are both used in many industries.
 
waynorth said:
You didn't tell us what steel is in your soddie's blade.
Click to expand...

This is Case's CV steel. Until a few years ago the local hardware store only sold them. If you wanted another knife, the owner would look at you funny, go in the back for a Case catalog, & let you pick. He died & they closed.
But most local folks here remember his table was held up by 2 boxes 1 end of YHCV soddies, the other end Winchester .38-40 ammo.
 
Depends on what use you put the steel to, and what the heat treat is. It can be heat treated tough, to bend, to take impacts, or to hold an incredible edge, but usually is heat treated in the middle -- easy to sharpen, take and hold a good edge for a reasonable time, but still be pretty tough and take some hard use.

Just like most blade steels, it's the heat treat used on the alloy that matters most, not what the alloy is.
 
knarfeng said:
In what context did he say this? Was he talking about knives?
Carbon steel and Chrome Vanadium alloy steel (CV Steel) are both used in many industries.
Click to expand...

He was admiring my peanut. He said that in the old days Buck would advertise a 300 series by driving it a piece of would & torque it. Case, & Schrade couldn't do that. They of course were carbon steel.
 
That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Have you ever seen a stainless steel axe/machete/saw? No, you haven't, if it was meant to be used. Stainless steel in general is too brittle for large impact blades.
That being said, brittleness is mostly a factor of the heat treat as someone else said.
Just because one maker uses an advertising technique and another doesn't, don't mean that the other company couldn't do it.
 
FWIW, Buck knives are known for the high quality of their heat treat. In fact, their version of 420HC stainless is so good (eg, on the Buck 110) most people don't realize it's "only" that "low quality" 420HC (much like Case's Tru-Sharp, dare I say...).

-- Sam
 
stingray4540 said:
That guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Have you ever seen a stainless steel axe/machete/saw? No, you haven't, if it was meant to be used. Stainless steel in general is too brittle for large impact blades.
That being said, brittleness is mostly a factor of the heat treat as someone else said.
Just because one maker uses an advertising technique and another doesn't, don't mean that the other company couldn't do it.
Click to expand...

YEP, I agree. Whoever came up with that 1 is either a moron, or an idiot.
But now I'm curious, how do the SAK's treat their steel for their tools?
 
There are all sorts of high impact tools made in stainless, specifically for sterile environments where simple carbon steels just wont work. Its a matter of choosing the correct alloy and heat treat for the intended purpose.
 
Moving this over to "General" for further discussion as this has moved beyond the scope of the "Traditional" forum.
 
HMC said:
I over heard a gentleman at Penn State saying that carbon or CV steel was brittle. If this is true, in what way? I've not had any problems with my CV blades, nor do the Amish from what I gather. I would think that as hard as it is, Bucks stainless would be brittle, but I could be wrong.:foot:
Click to expand...

knarfeng said:
In what context did he say this? Was he talking about knives?
Carbon steel and Chrome Vanadium alloy steel (CV Steel) are both used in many industries.
Click to expand...

HMC said:
He was admiring my peanut. He said that in the old days Buck would advertise a 300 series by driving it a piece of would & torque it. Case, & Schrade couldn't do that. They of course were carbon steel.
Click to expand...

Just how old is he talking about? From the 1970's on Buck has always used 400 series steel for their 300 series (301, 303, etc.) pocket knives. I don't do any side by side toughness tests, but I would consider CV steel to be tougher than 400 series steel.

If I think about twisting a pocket knife, the part that will fail first is the pivot pin and bolsters. If Buck 300 series pocket knives could be twisted and Case not (and I am only saying that for the sake of argument) it would be because of the strength of the pivot and build of the knife, not because of brittleness of the blade steel.
 
Case CV brittle? No, not like Case HTs it. It could stand to be a bit harder in my Opinion. I suppose you could put it to use HT too hard, but most commercial knives err, greatly, on the too-soft side of the equation.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top