Is hanging hammers the same as an axe?

[1215]

First, is there a good forum or other online resource for things like hanging hammers & sledges, etc. so I don't bother you guys with these questions? I'm looking for a good place (if it's here that's great too) to answer things like this:

Does grain orientation differ any with a hammer than an axe? (claw or mechanic/ball peen)

I recently got a whole slew of tools from my dad that have been collecting dust for years. Most of them were his fathers. Specifically, I've been looking for a handle/haft for a Stanley claw hammer that my dad said was his father's. The only weird thing about this Stanley hammer head is that the top of the eye (square, don't know what that style or shape is called) is larger than the bottom of the eye. It isn't larger by much, the top of the eye is 30mm x 16mm and the bottom is 27mm x 14mm. It is Stanley brand and not ground out so I have to believe that was intentional. Is that just to keep the hammer head firmly attached to the haft?

Hope this makes sense: Should I be using a larger wedge (or larger kerf slot) and still trying to profile the outside of the haft to the inside walls of the eye, such that to insert the haft into the head you almost need to pinch the kerf slot closed to get it in there? It is also wider front to back so that must mean I'm supposed to use cross wedges as well as a standard kerf wedge?? So that the the combination of wedges spread the haft out fully to the whole eye??? Should I use wood or metal wedges? This seems fairly advanced to attempt as a second hang, should I get a few other hangs under my belt first or just go for it, buy two handles and plan on screwing up the first one?

This axe forum is a great resource for learning about handles, hanging, grain orientation, etc. but a hammer is clearly not an axe so I don't want to dilute this forum with hammer questions unless its welcome and OK to do so. Thanks.

 

[Lieblad]

.....

 

[cityofthesouth]

Well I have a project thread going (search for "COTS project thread") and several of the guys will probably already know what I'm going to say. I have one particular friend who I hang a lot of hammers for - I never planned to be some kind of hammer hanger but that's the way it sorta happened for me in this hobby. The taper you are describing is designed to be the mechanical bond for wood handled tools. Once you drive the wedge, the top of the handle/tongue is now larger than the lower portion, making it impossible for the handle to come out. Axes are the same way, claw hammers usually aren't bad, but many hammer eyes are by guess and by god and the taper can range from almost nonexistent to extreme. And what I am saying is, I think you're already seeing the potential issues. It is not unusual to find a hammer eye that is so tapered that just to get the handle to pass through the eye it has to be significantly smaller than the top of the eye, to the point that it looks like you have these huge gaps around your handle. Based on what I had seen on this forum and other places, I began to employ a cross wedge system. It's not that it is really necessary for a good hang, but I have grown to appreciate the extreme taper because I now feel that with a little effort you can hang those tools essentially for life (or for the life of the handle). Even with blacksmiths hammers which might undergo pretty significant temperature fluctuation, you can get an extremely good bond.


I made a promise not to talk about grain orientation anymore and I suggest a search on that topic .... ONLY if you are bored to death. I understand you are a car guy, so if you're looking for something more fun you might change the air in your tires, or double check your glove box light in case it is burned out.


I make my own wedges, I always suggest that people make their own wedges, AND I rarely get a wedge pre-made that suits me. I don't use metal wedges and in fact, the (wooden) cross wedge does what metal wedges do, plus it CAN avert some of the potential OR perceived risks involved with metal wedges (particularly in hammers).

 

[1215]

LOL @ changing the air in a car's tyres. Point taken and noted.

So trial and error? Am I way off with going with a wider kerf slot and trying to pinch together the haft to slide it into the hammer eye? Am I trying to get the outside of the haft to match the profile of the hammer or am I trying to just match it to the lower (smaller) eye opening and then use the wedge to spread the haft?

How the heck do you do a cross wedge? Do I use a coping saw and cut a small cross kerf slot and then gradually make it bigger with thicker blades? (hacksaw, hand saw, etc.) Perpendicular to the fore/aft or bit/poll kerf slot or on a 40-45* angle to it?

I've looked at a couple hardware stores that stock Link handles and no one has had anything that will fit this eye. If I order a HH haft will it be giant and over-sized like their axe hafts?

Thanks for the replies.

 

[Agent_H]

How the heck do you do a cross wedge? Do I use a coping saw and cut a small cross kerf slot and then gradually make it bigger with thicker blades? (hacksaw, hand saw, etc.) Perpendicular to the fore/aft or bit/poll kerf slot or on a 40-45* angle to it?

*Edit- Square_peg mentioned using two hacksaw blades to widen the kerf. You can also cut it initially then clamp it shut on itself and cut it again (with the same saw).

Here are some related threads on cross wedges:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ouble-cross-wedged-hang?highlight=cross+wedge

Page 10 of COTS thread
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...S-Project-Thread/page10?highlight=cross+wedge

I've looked at a couple hardware stores that stock Link handles and no one has had anything that will fit this eye. If I order a HH haft will it be giant and over-sized like their axe hafts?.

There are very few handles you can buy that just slip right in – happens every once in a while but it’s not the norm. Better to shave a little off you don’t need than wish it was there when you need it.

 

[cityofthesouth]

I see what you mean about pinching the tongue shut to fit it in a handle and that's an interesting idea. No doubt it could work. If you're finding that the handles aren't even close to right (they are too small), I would just buy a sledge hammer handle or another large handle that can be taken down to the size you need. Before you ever get to wedging the handle you do want something that has at least enough material to get you a good fit in the lower portion of the eye. In fact, when I decide I am about to drive the handle home for the final time, I expect it to end up being so tight that I would have to work just to get it out, even without a wedge at all.

"or am I trying to just match it to the lower (smaller) eye opening and then use the wedge to spread the haft?" This is how I would describe fitting a handle. The concept of pinching the handle shut is interesting and you might find a way to make it work. If you have to make the kerf so big to make it work though, then I could foresee the wedge not working properly. And, it isn't necessary in the end. I have never cut over sized kerfs, I just make my wedges to each tool. There is the potential of splitting a handle by cross wedging it, but I've split handles with the main wedge too. Point is, you don't want the wedge to be moving wood so far that it splits, but the wedge is used to spread the haft into the taper of the eye.

 

[1215]

Thanks COTS. I think I found a HH that's large enough to fit into this Stanley eye. Because it's only a small taper (2-3mm, divided in half is only 1-1.5mm taper, per side) I'm going to first try and match the haft to the upper wide part of the eye, without widening the stock HH kerf and go from there. I can always take away material or widen the kerf later.

Agent_H, I've read both of those threads, thanks! I am wondering, whenever I have seen (on modern, usually inexpensive tools) cross wedges, whether they be wood or metal, they are usually on angles and not perpendicular to the bit/poll axis.

Also, when using cross wedges it seems that most show/talk about putting the cross wedge in first and the main wedge in second however this is different than what I have seen (again, on modern, usually inexpensive tools). Usually what I see is a metal or wooden cross wedge, either single or double, on a 40*-45* angle to the main wedge that are not the full width of the eye/haft AND that do not have a cut kerf slot (they are just hammered into the wood).

All I am wondering is about best practice vs. duplicating what they do in mass production factories.

Do I cut the haft as COTS shows for the cross wedge and at a 40-45* angle or 90*?

Do I put the cross wedge in first or second?

Do I use a small section of coping saw or hacksaw blade to try and cut a kerf slot into the first wedge or just use a chisel to crack it and be done with it?

I really appreciate everyone's patience with me and my questions. Thanks.

 

[cityofthesouth]

That my foggy brain can dig out of the file I have never seen wooden cross wedges in anything but hand hung tools. The metal wedge is on an angle to help avoid splitting, but as you can imagine, you can't really drive (yes, they hammer or press them in) what is essentially a metal blade into wood without splitting it. When you force wood to spread, regardless of the technique, you risk splitting it so there is a balance to be struck and it isn't always easy to find. That said, I don't suppose there is any reason you couldn't run your wooden cross on an angle as well.

I can only tell you my line of thinking and you can take it from there. Obviously, to begin with, metal wedges are very common if not practically ubiquitous in production tools. Second, if wooden cross wedges were absolutely necessary or best, you would probably see it done more often. Last, you can hang a hammer just fine with a single wooden wedge and nothing else and have a perfectly serviceable tool. You could drive nails, keys, and coins into it if it makes you happy and we've all seen it done.

That out of the way. My personal experience with hammers has involved a universal lack of ..... uniformity in eyes, in taper, size and shape. They can be both cone and hourglass shaped inside, but almost always the eyes have some kind of 360 degree taper. Next, I have pulled a number of old broken handles only to find that the cracks nearly always originated from the metal objects which had been driven into them. A kerf has long been used in wood working to prevent splits, so it has that inherent advantage over using metal wedges (not that you couldn't cut a kerf for your metal wedge - you could). As far as how you accomplish the wooden cross, techniques vary and they all work. I split the cross with a chisel because it's simple - the driving force of the way I do them is simplicity. Your main wedge will drive through the cross as if it isn't there, no problem. At the end of the day, grain orientation, wedging, fit, kerfs, none of it really "matters". You can jam a metal object onto a stick and have a tool and it'll work. All of this other stuff is; how much do you enjoy doing it? How much does it matter to you? What level of craftsmanship would you like to achieve?

 

[cityofthesouth]

Do I cut the haft as COTS shows for the cross wedge and at a 40-45* angle or 90*?
I'd be willing to try either.

Do I put the cross wedge in first or second?
I've done it both ways, and people who use wooden cross wedges do it both ways.

Do I use a small section of coping saw or hacksaw blade to try and cut a kerf slot into the first wedge or just use a chisel to crack it and be done with it?
Sounds tedious, painfully tedious. Just split it, or drive your wedges in individual pieces.

Sorry for posting twice. I just wanted to add that metal wedges are really a totally different animal than a wooden cross system. It has been said that the metal wedge keeps the wooden wedge in place - I don't personally understand this concept at all but I don't use them so any reason suits me just fine. My thinking of the real purpose for a metal wedge is it's intended to compress the wood in an already tight fit. Essentially, the metal won't give at all, and the wood is already tight, so the result is an almost spring tension effect, like a split washer on a bolt ... sorta. Metal wedges usually have barbs or steps or something to keep them in place and presumably, if compression is really going on, the wood will conform around them and you've got it locked in.

 

[Twindog]

One of my first mistakes was to make the cross kerf(s) too thin. I used a Japanese pull saw. The problem with the thin kerf is that it tends to promote cracking much more so than a wider kerf. I ended up using my 12-inch chop saw, after taping the tongues tightly around the sides to prevent chipping.

Square Peg's method of using two hacksaw blades sounds right to me because you get a wider kerf and you also cut that kerf with fine teeth, reducing the chances of chipping. But I've never tried it.

 

[1215]

What level of craftsmanship would you like to achieve?

Even though I joke, I don't really have OCD. That said, this is me taking the time to put a handle on an old Stanley hammer head with my grandfather's initials electric pencil etched in the side so that I can give it back to my dad as a gift. This one particular hammer has a story behind it: dad used it to try and hang a picture after my grandfather had told my dad to wait until the weekend and they would do it together. Dad didn't listen and as he was banging the nail into the wall, something of my grandmother's fell off the wall and smashed. I did something similar as a kid and we both can recall the a$$-whooping we got for not listening to our fathers.

Given the situation, I'd like it to be perfect. I'm trying to research the exact style/size/pattern of hafts that Stanley used for these hammers as well as if they used any paints/dyes/stains on their handles from the factory. This is one of those situations where spending a foolish amount of time is worth every minute to me.

EDIT: If he gets teary-eyed I'll know I've done a good job.

 

[garry3]

This guy is pretty good in my opinion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH4SiyTKk4k

 

[cityofthesouth]

Even though I joke, I don't really have OCD. That said, this is me taking the time to put a handle on an old Stanley hammer head with my grandfather's initials electric pencil etched in the side so that I can give it back to my dad as a gift. This one particular hammer has a story behind it: dad used it to try and hang a picture after my grandfather had told my dad to wait until the weekend and they would do it together. Dad didn't listen and as he was banging the nail into the wall, something of my grandmother's fell off the wall and smashed. I did something similar as a kid and we both can recall the a$$-whooping we got for not listening to our fathers.

Given the situation, I'd like it to be perfect. I'm trying to research the exact style/size/pattern of hafts that Stanley used for these hammers as well as if they used any paints/dyes/stains on their handles from the factory. This is one of those situations where spending a foolish amount of time is worth every minute to me.

EDIT: If he gets teary-eyed I'll know I've done a good job.

Sentimental value is a driving force for a lot of old tool junkies, so you're right at home. This being the case, the handle itself is the cheap part so if it doesn't go as planned, it's not a major loss. Plus, you might be able to land a couple claw hammers at the local junk shop for little or nothing and take a couple practice swings. I actually think the average claw hammer with a square eye is a good design and a little bit easier to hang than an oval eye since you are largely dealing with flat surfaces.

Another thing too, you could make a hammer handle out of just about anything. Unless it is going to be used to frame houses all day everyday, it doesn't even have to be "good" wood. Not that you would want to make it out of poor wood, I'm just saying if you could get a hunk of wood, it wouldn't be difficult at all to make this type of handle. Oak or Maple or even something you got out in the woods like Osage or Mulberry or Ash.