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is it hard to make slipjoints?
- Thread starter Dijos
- Start date
I would have to say that it is harder to make a slipjoint (especially multi-blade) than a tac folder. I mean, tac folders are nice, but they tend to use a lot of the same materials (Ti, G10, Micarta, new-age wonder steels)- in other words machine made. I think most high end custom slipjoint makers tend more towards natural materials and forged blades/bolsters. Thinking of the price of some materials such as stag, giraffe bone (my personal favorite), and MOP; coupled with the difficulty in getting the F&F exactly right so that the blades fit well and have that lovely "snap" to them and you have a reason for high prices. Of course, there are plenty of "user" slipjoints that won't cost you more than your average custom tac folder, but at the high end you get what you pay for. Just my opinion, though, and I don't have the GREATEST amount of experience.
Sincerely,
Anthony
Sincerely,
Anthony
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
- Apr 6, 2000
- Messages
- 90,915
I would move this over to the Shop Talk - BladeSmith Questions and Answers forum for you if I could. 
I think you could get some good answers there.
I've seen production versions of Tony Bose designs that astonished me with their price.
I think you could get some good answers there.I've seen production versions of Tony Bose designs that astonished me with their price.
Well I can see why they might be more expensive than a tactical folder. For one, as SpyderJon mentioned there is the difference in materials. But then you must also consider that making a multi blade slipjoint is kind of like making a few differenet knives. Each blade must lock open and closed solidly, move smoothly, have just the right amount of spring pressure on it, and have the spring sitting flush in both the open and closed positions.
Then of course there is the added difficulty in working with natural materials. They are not as consistent as a sheet of G-10, every piece of MOP, stag, bone, etc will behave differently when worked. I made a folder with MOP scales, the scales cost a good bit to start with. Then all of a sudden as I nearly had them finished a big chunk of the pearl comes shooting out. I would guess makers need to take things like that into consideration when making up a price.
Then of course there is the added difficulty in working with natural materials. They are not as consistent as a sheet of G-10, every piece of MOP, stag, bone, etc will behave differently when worked. I made a folder with MOP scales, the scales cost a good bit to start with. Then all of a sudden as I nearly had them finished a big chunk of the pearl comes shooting out. I would guess makers need to take things like that into consideration when making up a price.
- Joined
- Nov 24, 1999
- Messages
- 4,981
So far making slip joints is the hardest thing I've tried to do, haven't been successful yet. To do it well, you have to fit the spring and tang of the blade so that it will snap to 3 diffferent positions-open, half stop, and closed. These all have to be right on or its going to seem sloppy. The spring should lay flush when the knife is open and closed, thats also very difficult to do.
You get all that stuff roughed out and then you have to heat treat it all and go back and do fine tuning. The spring has to be pre bent, and it has to be just right because it will relax some during heat treat. So its a chore to keep it from being too strong or too weak.
Then once you have the mechanics of it down you have all the fit and finish stuff. You generally have 2 or more blades to put a finish on instead of one. They're small and hard to work with. You have small bolsters, small pins, and generally delicate handle material. Then you can add in extras like filework. On a slip joint, you can do filework on the liners, blades and springs. When you start stacking up multiple blades, thats a ton of stuff to file on!
You get all that stuff roughed out and then you have to heat treat it all and go back and do fine tuning. The spring has to be pre bent, and it has to be just right because it will relax some during heat treat. So its a chore to keep it from being too strong or too weak.
Then once you have the mechanics of it down you have all the fit and finish stuff. You generally have 2 or more blades to put a finish on instead of one. They're small and hard to work with. You have small bolsters, small pins, and generally delicate handle material. Then you can add in extras like filework. On a slip joint, you can do filework on the liners, blades and springs. When you start stacking up multiple blades, thats a ton of stuff to file on!
- Joined
- Apr 19, 1999
- Messages
- 3,560
Given that so many companies have been making them for over a century they should be easy to make......Aint so. A slipjoint is the only type of knife that I have not been able to make up. Just a tiny misalignment or too much pressure peening a pin and the darned thing won't work.
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 12,955
Slipjoints are a whole different level of expertise for sure.
From my own limited experience the best way to learn how to do slip joints to become familiar with them is to buy old ones that are already coming apart or have already lost a blade or two and rebuild them or remake the parts and the blades and reuse the back springs and pins. Sometimes you can reuse everything but often the brass liners and/or certain pins, handles or bolsters will need replaced.
Besides the three slipjoints I've made from scratch myself I have also rebuilt many old Case knives and some Schrades too by replacing broken blades and bolsters and other things like that. You can find broken slipjoints for as little a $.25 upwards of $5.00 at junk stores that make great projects to start out on. Rebuilding an old classic can be a very rewarding experience.
Hobby Lobby or other craft stores carry sheets of brass that you can 'work harden' to replace liners or you could opt to use sheet metal in stainless sheets bought from a knife supply and cut them out yourself on a band saw or other such tool and have hardened by a heat treating service. Brass rods can be bought at Lowes and other hardware suppliers to replace pins. Most often though the old pins can be straightened and reused based on my own rebuilds.
Of course there is the other option of buying complete unassembled slipjoint kits to assemble yourself. Jantz and Knife and Gun Finishing supplies and others sell them. I personally found it more rewarding, cheaper, and more challenging to rebuild old ones though. I would assume that once you get good at it you could get most of the patterns for making your own from scratch by tracing all the parts and taking measurments of the ones you like before assembling them so that when the time comes you can make your own and do it all from scratch without having to reuse parts.
From what I've been told by slip joint makers that do it professionally the hardest part isn't the assembly but the heat treating differences and the science behind that for the springs vs the blade heat treating. Some makers opt to send out the smaller parts like springs and liners to have them heat treated for them because of the exacting sciences behind doing this part. The smaller the part the greater the chance for warping so it can be tricky. Even with the best the parts will change slightly upon heat treating and when assembled the knife will most often require 'tweaking' by taking off a little steel from the tangs of the blades and perhaps the springs too upon final assembly to make all the springs sit as close to flush as possible in all positions.
Just look at the mass produced slipjoints being made out there sometime and you'll see that even the best slipjoints springs are not flush or in quite the same postition when the blade is opened or closed. Many of the slipjoints in my own collection have these minor flaws so be easy on yourself if you end up in that same boat should you make some of your own. It happens. It doesn't mean the knife won't work. There is an 'ideal' to shoot for. Sometimes you hit it, and sometimes you don't. Right now it seems to me that Queen is making the best slip joints commercially for what that is worth. To really see some fine work though check out Morrow or Ruple slipjoints.
Should you get to where you need this info: Paul Bos over at Buck Knives has heat treated smaller stainless liners and other parts for me of 410SS and he is real good about getting it done promptly but I'm sure there are other services out there that do this too. Paul is also more consistant than anyone else I've used as the changes in the steel he treats is minimal from what I have seen of his work. You tell him what Rockwell hardness you want and you can be assured that it is there or very close when you get it back in the mail I can tell you that.
From my own limited experience the best way to learn how to do slip joints to become familiar with them is to buy old ones that are already coming apart or have already lost a blade or two and rebuild them or remake the parts and the blades and reuse the back springs and pins. Sometimes you can reuse everything but often the brass liners and/or certain pins, handles or bolsters will need replaced.
Besides the three slipjoints I've made from scratch myself I have also rebuilt many old Case knives and some Schrades too by replacing broken blades and bolsters and other things like that. You can find broken slipjoints for as little a $.25 upwards of $5.00 at junk stores that make great projects to start out on. Rebuilding an old classic can be a very rewarding experience.
Hobby Lobby or other craft stores carry sheets of brass that you can 'work harden' to replace liners or you could opt to use sheet metal in stainless sheets bought from a knife supply and cut them out yourself on a band saw or other such tool and have hardened by a heat treating service. Brass rods can be bought at Lowes and other hardware suppliers to replace pins. Most often though the old pins can be straightened and reused based on my own rebuilds.
Of course there is the other option of buying complete unassembled slipjoint kits to assemble yourself. Jantz and Knife and Gun Finishing supplies and others sell them. I personally found it more rewarding, cheaper, and more challenging to rebuild old ones though. I would assume that once you get good at it you could get most of the patterns for making your own from scratch by tracing all the parts and taking measurments of the ones you like before assembling them so that when the time comes you can make your own and do it all from scratch without having to reuse parts.
From what I've been told by slip joint makers that do it professionally the hardest part isn't the assembly but the heat treating differences and the science behind that for the springs vs the blade heat treating. Some makers opt to send out the smaller parts like springs and liners to have them heat treated for them because of the exacting sciences behind doing this part. The smaller the part the greater the chance for warping so it can be tricky. Even with the best the parts will change slightly upon heat treating and when assembled the knife will most often require 'tweaking' by taking off a little steel from the tangs of the blades and perhaps the springs too upon final assembly to make all the springs sit as close to flush as possible in all positions.
Just look at the mass produced slipjoints being made out there sometime and you'll see that even the best slipjoints springs are not flush or in quite the same postition when the blade is opened or closed. Many of the slipjoints in my own collection have these minor flaws so be easy on yourself if you end up in that same boat should you make some of your own. It happens. It doesn't mean the knife won't work. There is an 'ideal' to shoot for. Sometimes you hit it, and sometimes you don't. Right now it seems to me that Queen is making the best slip joints commercially for what that is worth. To really see some fine work though check out Morrow or Ruple slipjoints.
Should you get to where you need this info: Paul Bos over at Buck Knives has heat treated smaller stainless liners and other parts for me of 410SS and he is real good about getting it done promptly but I'm sure there are other services out there that do this too. Paul is also more consistant than anyone else I've used as the changes in the steel he treats is minimal from what I have seen of his work. You tell him what Rockwell hardness you want and you can be assured that it is there or very close when you get it back in the mail I can tell you that.