Is it legal to carry my Nimravus UN-Concealed??

[frank aka rage]

Hello again folks, i have this question that is driving me nuts, btw(i will call my district attorney's office tommorow)-just to see what they will tell me, god only knows, lol. Well, since i was younger, i've always known the law, regarding knives was like this, or correct me if i'm wrong, i would be able to carry a fixed blade-in it's sheath, on my belt, while my dress shirt is tucked in, making everyone around me know, and they can even see i'm carring a knife-so it's totally un-concealed, isnt that legal.
Well, my main question is this, i really wanna carry my Nimravus on my belt, and it will be totally, at every time, un-concealed, i will not wear any vest, or anything to even mearly cover part of the knife up. I usually carry two folders, (afck, carnivour, or axis lock_-with a back up, like my delica's. I would think that it is perfectly legal to carry a fixed blade knife on my belt-once again, not double edged, only single edged. So, i live in Suberbia on New York State, and am a Manager at a store in a shopping mall, simply put, CAN I CARRY A FIXED BLADE TOTALLY UN-CONCEALED..

Thanks for all the info, and or advice you can give me.

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"for future shall not bring freedom..but not the sight that man sees, harvest your freedom, and make a future..for no one is here to protect your fate, and tame your dreams-freedom, it's in the air..."

 

[Gollnick]

Your district attorney's office will probably decline to answer the question. You'd be asking them for a legal opinion. If they gave you an answer and it was wrong, they'd be in big trouble. To generate a good answer, they'd have to research the matter extensively. It would be time consuming and expensive. They don't have the time or money to answer the leagal questions of every guy who calls up. Their response will probably be "you'll have to ask your attorney." Of course, your attorney will probaly charge you $500 for an answer.

Belive it or not, the government does not have any "answer desk" that can tell you what is and what is not legal, especially where criminal law is concerned. The problem is that THE LAW really isn't clearly written down in any one handy place. THE LAW consists of what the legislature has passes, as interpreted by the courts, and as tempered by federal laws and federal courts. Determining what is and what is not "legal" can be quite complicated and the answers aren't always true/false.

I saw an ad the other day for this site: http://www.legalopinion.com/
For a flat rate of $39.95, they'll have a real lawyer give you a legal opinion about most any question. (They have some 4500 participating lawyer. My guess is that they put the questions up in some sort of online board. Lawyers with spare time can scan the list and see if there's anything they can answer off the top of their head for a quick $20. The goal for the lawyer here is to find some question that he already knows the answer to, perhaps from research he did for a previous case. He can answer the question in five minutes, five minutes he'd normally spend checking sports scores, and make a quick $20. But, hey, in 4500 lawyers, there might be one who has the answer to your question right at hand and you can get it for $40.)

I've never used this service. I just saw the ad the other day.

Just a suggestion anyway if the DA's office declines to answer.



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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com

 

[TheMartialWay]

frank,

NY state law does not mention anything about concealed or un-concealed. It simply states what is legal or illegal. You have to see if your knife fits one of the "illegal" categories. It could probably fit under the "dangerous knife", I am sure any knife could be called a dangerous knife. Even if your knife fits a category it is only illegal if you intend to use it unlawfully against another individual.

IMHO the bottom line is, don't carry it to use unlawfully against another individual and it is ok concealed or unconcealed.

unconcealed will probably result in more frequent run ins with the law, and also more fear from the sheeple.

New York - Penal Law Section 265.01. A person is guilty of
criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He possesses any firearm... gravity knife, switchblade
knife, pilum ballistic knife, cane sword...
(2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto... or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with the intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or...
(5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States...
- Section 265.00 4. "Switchblade knife" means any knife which has a blade which opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife. 5. "Gravity knife" means any knife has blade which is released from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity of the application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in place by means of a button, spring, lever, or other device. 5-a. "Pilum ballistic knife" means any knife which has a blade which can be projected from the handle by hand
pressure applied to a button, lever, spring or other device in the handle of the knife.
- 265.04. It shall be unlawful for any person under the age of sixteen to possess any... dangerous knife... A person who violates the provisions of this section shall be adjudged a juvenile delinquent. [Found unconstitutionally vague by Superior Court, 1982; finding reversed by Court of Appeals, 1983]
- Section 265.10... 1. Any person who manufactures or causes to be manufactured... any switchblade knife, gravity knife, pilum ballistic knife... is guilty of a class A misdemeanor... 4. Any person who disposes of any of the weapons, instruments or appliances specified in subdivision one of section 265.01, except a firearm, is guilty of a class A misdemeanor, and he is guilty of a class D felony if he has been previously convicted of any crime.
- Section 265.15 Presumption of possession... 2. The presence in any stolen vehicle of any weapon... specified in sections 265.01... is presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying such vehicle... 3. The presence in an automobile, other than a stolen one or a public omnibus, of any firearm... gravity knife, switchblade knife... is presumptive evidence of its possession by all persons occupying such vehicle... except... (a) if such weapon... is found upon the person of one of the occupants therein; b) is such weapon... is found in an automobile which is being operated for hire by
a duly licensed driver... then such presumption shall not apply to the driver...
New York Case Law:
- Knife... was not a "gravity knife"... even though blade of knife could be released from its sheath by flick of the wrist; in order to lock blade of knife in open position, two additional steps were required... (1989).
- Butterfly or "Balisong" knife, a folding knife with a split handle, did not have blade released by force of gravity or application of centrifugal force, and did not constitute a "gravity knife"... (1987).
- "A bayonet was within class of weapons designated as 'any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon'.... (1937)
- "Under rule of ejusdem generis [of the same kind]... an ice pick was a 'dangerous weapon'... (1948)
- "Evidence that defendant wielded butcher knife in presence of others was sufficient to support charge..." (1987)
- "...possession of knife 15 to 18 inches long was legally sufficient to establish prima facie case of carrying dangerous weapon as felony..." (1963)
- "Accused's possession of knife in case attached to his belt, with long handle protruding and case sheathing blade concealed inside accused's trousers, did not constitute violation... absent evidence of design on accused's part to use the knife unlawfully." (1974)
- "That parolee was found in possession of straight razor could not, without more, establish his possession of dangerous instrument or deadly weapon..." (1981)
- "The possession of a razor by a barber for use in his trade, even if it was on his person, was not within... this section." (1914)
- "Paint brush found in possession of a housepainter while on his way home from work was not the kind of instrument covered by... this section, prohibiting the carrying of a dangerous weapon." (1962) http://www.knife-expert.com

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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive"

 

[Boriqua]

Chap. 1 Public Safety 10-133

Historical Note
Formerly 436-5.1
10-133
Possession of knives or instruments.

"It is further declared and found that the wearing or carrying of knives in open view in public places while such knives are not being used for a lawful purpose is unnecessary and threatening to the public and should be prohibited."

This is for NYC. I have mor info at my home page under news.


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ALex

http://home.att.net./~a.boriqua

 

[Samurai6]

The short answer is that it is only concealed fixed-blades that are illegal in CA. Certain cities, LA, Hollywood, and Davis are known to have laws banning both open and concealed carry at the same time.

I live in San Jose, and have been carrying various fixed-blades openly for a long time with no problems so far. My current fav is an M-2 Nimravus Cub.

 

[Jim March]

Errr...Steve, California is NOT the only state where open-carry cutlery is legal while concealed is a bust (depending on the knife of course, a small enough piece is almost always OK).

Such statutes are very archaic, they originally dated to the South circa 1820-1840 give or take a bit. They're fairly common across the West and South to this day.

New York however has no such "open carry is good" rule. Bob Dozier sells a "New York Special" 4" fixed-blade in a nice shoulder rig system, which appears to match what's being said in this thread about legalities.

Since there isn't any specific length and type limits, just a general prohibition on "carrying something bad", I would personally avoid double-edged pieces.

I've heard 4" referred to as a NY limit BUT I don't know how accurate that is, or whether that's a state thing or NYC specific.

As a single-edged 4" FB, the Nimravus would seem to be a good choice, carried concealed. It occurs to me that if the question comes up about it being "utility versus defense", if you spend the extra loot on an M2 version for edgeholding, you could make a pretty impressive argument that the extra edgeholding is because of all the boxes you're cutting and other utility uses you're putting it through. But even the ATS-34 version is better steel than a Pakistani POS so the same argument might still work: you buy GOOD knives because it's a daily tool that you don't want to re-sharpen down to a stub in short order.

Most knives cops find on "gangbanger punks" and the like are REALLY crappy.

California is a whole different legal climate for knives. What's legal and what isn't is far more clearly defined, to the point where arguing over why you carry shouldn't even come up. That's how it should be: something is either legal or it ain't.

Jim