Is M-2 the same as D-2?

Ed Gordon

Ed Gordon

Joined
Feb 19, 2000
Messages
1,044
I had recently bought a D-2 extreme folder by Kabar and was impressed with the solid & precise construction but had to grind the thumb disk smoother, bend the pocket clip tighter and loosen the blade tension up. I got "fed up" with this knife and gave it to my son and told him to "use the heck out of it". I originally bought it just to see how D-2 steel performed. Well he has used this knife to cut anything and everything without resharpening for over a week now. He was cleaning the blade after using it to cut food for dinner and just barely bumped the blade on his finger- the blade cut him instantly! I am really impressed with this steel. I don't see any other factory knives available with D-2 and the Kabar just does not fit the bill for me (I want to like it, I just don't). Is Benchmades M-2 really D-2? If so I'll just order me a Mini AFCK right away and all my troubles will be gone. (AFCK's are great knives!). Any of your expert opinions would be greatly appreciated. If M-2 is not D-2, R2D2 or C3PO then if anyone can recommend a source for a folder with D-2 that is similar in size etc. as an AFCK please let me know.
Thanks...Ed.
 
I had exactly the same problems. I got over them however. I used the knife a lot open close open close... untill it losened up a little. I greased and tuf glided it. The thumb disc does suck a lot though. I bent the clip as well. I tried to loosen the pivot, but it striped out and I cannot move it either way.

M2 and D2 are very different. D2 holds a slightly better edge, but M2 is tougher. M2 will rust much quicker while D2 is a semi stainless, so is fairly good. I LOVE this steel!
You are right however this knife needs a serious rethink. I posted about this on rec.knives a long time ago.

W.A.

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Originally posted by Ed Gordon:
Is Benchmades M-2 really D-2?
Click to expand...

D2 is not M2, it was rather a cheap replacement for M2 (the later has higher Mo & V content and W which D2 doesn't have).
Not sure if D2 will hold a better edge, especially that M2 can be hardened to higher RC w/o becomming as brittle as D2.



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zvis.com
Have Fun,
Alligator
 
Just a slight correction: Neither D2 nor M2 is a "cheap replacement" for the other, as they are used in different applications. As their names suggest, D2 is a *Die steel* while M2 is a *Molybdenum alloy* (also known as "high speed steel"). Its higher Molybdenum (Mo: 5% vs D2’s +/- 1%) and high Tungsten (W: +/- 6%) are designed to maintain wear resistance at high temperatures caused, for example, by constant high friction. Its chromium content (4%) is also largely dedicated to maintaining this high-speed "red hardness."

Assuming equally good heat treats, D2 should hold a longer knife edge. M2 is certainly a proven, quality knife steel, but its Mo and W properties are largely irrelevant in knives.
 
As was correctly pointed out, D2 is a steel alloy originally developed for dies, tools that hit things. M2 was originally developed for high-speed cutting tools, drill bits, mills, that sort of thing.

At first thought, M2 might seem like an ideal alloy for knife blades if it was made for cutting tools. But, when was the last time you shaved with a drill bit? The two different applications are different.

While neither was developed originally for the purpose, both D2 and M2, it turns out, make great steels for knife blades.
Both D2 and M2 share one common inheritance from their origins in machine shops and industrial equipment: they both rust. You see industrial dies and cutting tools are supposed to be carefully maintained. So, rust-resistance was not emphasized in formulating either of these alloys. I've heard more rust horror stories surrounding D2, but clearly both need careful attention.


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Chuck
Balisongs -- because it don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing!
http://www.balisongcollector.com
 
I have to disagre about rust on D-2 i have about 3000 dendritic D-2 knives out in the field i have not had 1 person ever said anything about rust
 
As a custom maker I get frequent calls for D-2 in hard use knives (Plumbers, Carpenters, Electricians, Farmers & Ranchers). The bigest reason that factory folks do not use D-2 is that it is non-cosmetic, other steels with the higher shine factor fit their target market. If you are not bothered by the lack of mirror shine then D-2 is one of the best hard work knife steels around. an alteration in the heat treat process of this steel will remove the brittleness normally found in D-2 while still maintaining the higher hardness. This change is not easy nor quickly accomplished so most factories do not put the time (money) into it. That plus the apperance generally eliminates it from their list of best steels.

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old pete
 
S' il vous plait messeurs. FYI D2 has a 11.00- 13.00% chromium content. Whereas M2 has only 3.75- 4.0%! Compare the AUS series of 6,8, and 10 and 154CM/ ATS34 of having 13.00- 14.5%. This puts D2 to as stainless for any tool steel can get. Simple routine cleaning is all D2 requires.

Proper tempering/ heat treating is key. I' ve used many of Bob Doziers fix blades over the years and have found none to have chipped. And a few have gone thru some rough rides.

As for M2, a few of my BM AFCKs with the usual black coating have shown discoloring on its edge bevels rather easily...

L8r,
Nakano

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"To earn a million is easy, a real friend is not."
 
I am not a metallurgist nor a maker but I' d like to add that the source for D2 or any other steel may vary. Especially during its manufacturing process. I understand that KaBars D2 blades are laser cut to shape. It is said that this process affects the micro structure of the particular steel. Could this be the cause for any possible chipping, edge holding, and ease of sharpening of D2 or any other steel?

L8r,
Nakano
 
All due respect to all that have posted, but you cannot judge a knife blade by the steel specifications. When Benchmade first announced that they were going to make M-2 blades, everybody groaned because they thought it would be too brittle. They were thinking of RcH 63 cutting tools. At 60 RcH, M-2 is tough, fine grained, and holds an edge great. If you can tell the difference in edge holding between a Benchmade M-2 blade, a D-2 blade, a CPM 440V blade, or anything else, you use a knife a lot longer and harder than I do.

Buy the M-2 Mini AFCK. If you like D-2, you will love Benchmade's M-2. Next to the CPM420V blades in my Darrel Ralph knives, Benchmade's M-2 blades are my favorite.
 
Talking about D-2 being brittle... why did Ka-bar make a 7in. blade with it?

Seb
 
D2 isn't as tough as some of the other tool steels at the same hardness but it's noticeably tougher than some of the more popular stainless steels being used.
 
Originally posted by Steve Harvey:
If you can tell the difference in edge holding between a Benchmade M-2 blade, a D-2 blade, a CPM 440V blade, or anything else, you use a knife a lot longer and harder than I do.
Click to expand...

Give me a cardboard box the size of a washing machine, and I will tell you which one is 440V before I'm finished cutting up the box. Assuming that it is the typical Spydie hardness 440V. If it is higher, then put a few staples in the box, and I might be able to tell you anyway. The difference between D2 and M2 would take a little longer. I might need about 4 more of those same boxes.
smile.gif


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iktomi
 
A scene from a rust horror story .....

[sobbing]

Rambo, get a hold of yourself !

Colonel, it's happening again, they won't leave me alone.

Rambo, you're the best of the best, you thrive on pain that kills others. What is it Rambo ?

Colonel, tell them to stop ! I can't stand it anymore ! It's just like last time ! Colonel, they're making my knife rusty....[more sobbing]

Rambo, I'm here for you. The country owes you damn it, even if it doesn't understand you, so you'll get a new knife. It'll be shiny, and this time it won't rust.

Why did it take them so long, don't they understand what it means !

[The sobbing subsides]

:^)
 
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