Is S30V better than VG10? If so, how?

S

Steven Andrews

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Apr 7, 2002
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I'm a big fan of Spyderco and Fallkniven knives in VG10 but today ordered a small Sebenza.
Will I notice a difference with S30V? My Sebenza has cost a lot of money - is this mainly because of the steel or just the components in general? I understand that build-quality is a big part of it.
Oh, and how will the Benza compare to my Starmate?
Your help would be gratefully received,
Steve
 
VG-10 takes a better edge, and is easier to sharpen. S30V should hold an edge better, and it should be tougher. They should be pretty much the same on stain/rust resitance.

Jeff
 
VG10 is a very good steel. IMO in this high-quality area, the best steels won´t expose a much better performance than the rest of the premium steels.
Maybe S30V will make you notice a slight difference in edge-holding, but that probably won´t happen - differences are marginal. Maybe even VG10 will perform better because it shows excellent rust-resistancy. I was surprised myself when read about the salt-water spray test results in a German magazine (they tested a Teflon-coated Fällkniven A1 in a comparison of diving knives - and it held up great!). OK - this is partially due to the coating, but it´s still impressive, isn´t it? But S30V should be very corrosion-resistant too.

The Sebenza´s got a great reputation and very good fit and finish. If you would not be satisfied with it´s performance you can still re-sell it with little loss...I personally would take a custom if I was willing to spend that much money for a knife (Sebbies are very expensive over here in Germany), but everybody has his/her own taste, which is a great thing. At the moment, my personal limit would be about 250 Euros/Dollars - I really appreciate the fit and finish of Spydercos and Benchmades, and I generally prefer fixed blades. So maybe the high-end folder enthusiasts will be more of an help for you regarding this topic.
 
S30v is made by particle metallurgy technology, along with other CPM's it take a much finer edge than other "stainless steels," also because of it's superior toughness it can be ground at much more acute angle than VG10 and still have better resistance to denting or chipping, at same given RC. See the recent thread "The Raven" in the Reviews section, knife maker Rob Simonich does destruction testing on his S30V knife- he is a very respected maker and he believes after testing that S30V provides greater edge holding and toughness than A2!:eek:
That indicates S30V is not only "marginally better" than other stainless- it now competes with hgher alloy "non-stainless carbon steel " like D2 and A2.
Of course, Chris Reeve usage of S30V is controversial because they set it to low Rc without clear reason, many believe it should be set to higher RC especiallt in their Sebenza-
Martin
 
I'm not a metalurgist whatsoever, but I've often heard Bill Moran says good things about VG-10.

So, I vote for VG-10.
 
S30V is truly a "next generation" steel. It is based on powdered metallurgy technology and was designed specifically for cutlery applications. It has a terrific balance of properties and outshines VG-10 by a big margin. Notice that I said "balance of properties" which correctly infers that some other steels may outperform it in specific applications.

An example would be to compare Talonite (a cobalt alloy, not a steel) with S30V. A Talonite blade is impervious to corrosion; it could be used around salt water or in butchering and skinning where it might be left in contact with blood, etc. for long periods of time, and NOT show the slightest corrosion. Although S30V has excellent corrosion resistance, Talonite would outperform it for ultimate corrosion resistance.

Yet Talonite has only half the strength of S30V. You can put a nasty notch in it hitting a staple while cutting cardboard or significantly damage the edge by attempting heavy work around hard wood or even bones. And an attempt to cut your way through a car door in an emergency would be ludicrous. S30V would dominate in these areas.

That said, only a few per cent of buyers will use their blades to the level that any significant difference will be noticed. Additionally, many other factors, such as the grind, the shape of the blade, and the heat treatment will have at least as much, if not more, effect on the knife's performance than will the choice of VG-10 vs. S30V.

So, Steve, you're probably not going to notice much difference between the steels. Both perform very well in a properly designed blade.
 
Steven, the way it's made is not just part of it. It is it. The cost of steel in a Sebenza (or most any other knife) is a relatively small part of the total. You wouldn't see a VG-10 knife made in the U.S. anyway since I think it's only available in Japan. If it were available here the cost difference between it or BG-42 (the former Sebenza steel) or S30V would be minimal. What you pay for with your Sebenza is good materials to be sure but more importantly great design, flawless and labor intensive manufacture and 100% quality control. Among the benefits you get are things like a locking mechanism that won't fail or loosen over time, an action that works well and is adjustable and fit and finish that are perfect from my experience. It is a top quality knife and a good choice regardless of the type of steel used in it manufacture.
 
Fred, just curious. How much does the steel for a knife blade cost? No handles, lock, clip, screws, machining, R & D, etc. Thanks.
 
Originally posted by beluga
I'm not a metalurgist whatsoever, but I've often heard Bill Moran says good things about VG-10.

So, I vote for VG-10.
Click to expand...

Could it be because a line of knives from Spyderco bearing his name happen to use this Japanese stainless steel?
 
Originally posted by Knife Outlet
What you pay for with your Sebenza is good materials to be sure but more importantly great design, flawless and labor intensive manufacture and 100% quality control.
Click to expand...

Fred, that was beautifully put. I'm really looking forward to receiving it now!
 
from what I have seen, S30V is the BEST stainless steel ever made, up to this point, and far exceeds the performance of VG10
 
Hi folks,

can anyone tell what's the cost for the S30V steel and how soft it is when it arrives from the steel manufacturer? In amounts of 100 lbs, 1000 lbs, 2000 lbs?

Which dimensions are available?

Is it tough to grind S30V compared to e g 154CM, ATS34, VG10? The same or half as easy/difficult?

Are there established heat treatment/tempering methods for S30V and are they public?

It would be interesting to receive an as full as possible picture about this interesting steel.

So far, we're very happy with the VG10 and laminated VG10 steel and have no plans to skip them. But it is interesting to follow up new steels on the market.

I agree with Fred but I also think that the purpose of the knife also is something to consider when you start thinking of which steel to use.

Take care

Peter Hjortberger
Fallkniven AB, Sweden
 
Bob,

I'm not a manufacturer and don't have definitive answers. Others have told me that the cost of materials is roughly 10% of what manufacturers view as production cost. The other elements like labor and other expenses are far greater. Understand that some materials, like Talonite, are quite expensive and knives that use them will be expensive just for that reason. Otherwise, I think the difference in cost between various steels in a knife is likely to be pennies rather than dollars. Perhaps one of the manufacturers can provide a better answer.

Peter,

I think your best bet would be to contact Crucible directly. A quick phone call should get the job done. I heard a presentation by one of the reps from Crucible at the SHOT show in January and I can tell you they are very enthusiastic about S30V. It is encouraging that the tiny sporting knife industry finally has enough size and clout to motivate the development of a steel targeted specifically at it.

There has been some controversy on how to heat treat S30V but most of the manufacturers that are using it seem confident that they have that nailed down. Lots of products are in development using the new steel. Chris Reeve has been shipping S30V blades since about February or March. I'm sure there is enough experience in the industry that Crucible has some advice on heat treating.

Seems strange that the man who put VG10 on the map wants to look at another steel:) Just kidding.
 
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