Is s30v less toothy than 154cm?

S

SnowCrash

Joined
Nov 23, 2010
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I can run a finger across s30v, and not fear being cut from the sage 2. On the other hand, I can barely run my finger on my HK14205, and it feels like it almost pulls my skin into the blade. Both pluck hair pretty much as easily, but for some reason s30v doesn't seem to "feel" as sharp as the 154cm.

What am I missing? Both were sharpened with the sharpmaker.
 
Toothy is a characteristic of a particular finish put on a cutting edge based on sharpening, not necessarily the steel itself. Steels tend to be "toothy" based on carbide content, S30V has larger carbides than 154CM from what I've read in the data sheets.
The 154CM will take a more razor like edge than S30V, but the latter will hold a solid working edge much longer. I guess ou could make a fair comparison in 154CM to something like VG10. Not to lecture, but running fingers across a blade is a surefire way to draw blood. Not recommended way to test sharpness.
 
RevDevil said:
Toothy is a characteristic of a particular finish put on a cutting edge based on sharpening, not necessarily the steel itself. Steels tend to be "toothy" based on carbide content, S30V has larger carbides than 154CM from what I've read in the data sheets.
The 154CM will take a more razor like edge than S30V, but the latter will hold a solid working edge much longer. I guess ou could make a fair comparison in 154CM to something like VG10. Not to lecture, but running fingers across a blade is a surefire way to draw blood. Not recommended way to test sharpness.
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I actually normally prefer the toothy finish compared to razor, seems to work like micro serrations and grips the cutting surface. I just don't understand why I can't put the toothy edge on this sage2 s30v blade. guess I'll just keep trying the dark stones until I'm satisfied.
 
I've tried 8k grit polished edges on a Military and it stayed sharp for a really long time. I went back and resharpened to 320 and left it at that, still super sharp. Make sure you are getting a burr along the entire cutting edge, you can feel it when it's there.
 
RevDevil said:
Toothy is a characteristic of a particular finish put on a cutting edge based on sharpening, not necessarily the steel itself. Steels tend to be "toothy" based on carbide content, S30V has larger carbides than 154CM from what I've read in the data sheets.
The 154CM will take a more razor like edge than S30V, but the latter will hold a solid working edge much longer. I guess ou could make a fair comparison in 154CM to something like VG10. Not to lecture, but running fingers across a blade is a surefire way to draw blood. Not recommended way to test sharpness.
Click to expand...

You are reading the data sheets wrong.
CPM S30V has a higher percentage of carbides than 154CM..
The size of the carbides in S30V (or any PM steel for that matter) are smaller than those in 154CM. That is one of the major advantages to PM steels.

Personally, I feel more toothiness to PM steels than I do with 154CM.
S30V will hold an edge quite a bit longer.
 
knarfeng said:
You are reading the data sheets wrong.
CPM S30V has a higher percentage of carbides than 154CM..
The size of the carbides in S30V (or any PM steel for that matter) are smaller than those in 154CM. That is one of the major advantages to PM steels.

Personally, I feel more toothiness to PM steels than I do with 154CM.
S30V will hold an edge quite a bit longer.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it just takes that much longer to put an edge on s30v then, when i got this knife it was pretty dull- i guess it's time to get out the sharpie just to make sure, otherwise i'm just terrible with the sharpmaker
 
Thinking about getting an Edgepro apex after all, what would I need in addition to the regular kit to get a polished mirror edge?

Also would the edgepro apex be great with a sebenza? Of course I'd have to practice on cheaper knives first ;)
 
uh yeha an edgepro and a sebenza is kinda a dream team. i have the pro model and is superb, best knife sharpener out there. man you really shouldnt touch a knifes edge, anyone on this forum should know better.

and is your tag supposed to come from the book? cause the book is awesome.
 
Snow Crash , it's the large amounts of very hard Vanadium carbide in S30V that makes it harder to sharpen.

BTW I'm now carrying a S35VN Sebenza which seems to be half way between S30V and CPM154 , less of a sharpening problem than S30V. These three steels should be sharpened with fine diamond .I sharpen freehand with a 1200 grit diamond.
What's a burr ??
 
CPM S30V has a higher percentage of carbides than 154CM..
The size of the carbides in S30V (or any PM steel for that matter) are smaller than those in 154CM. That is one of the major advantages to PM steels.

Personally, I feel more toothiness to PM steels than I do with 154CM.
S30V will hold an edge quite a bit longer.
Click to expand...

Knarfeng, isn't the individual VC type vanadium carbide from a powder steel essentially the same as one ( vanadium carbide) from an ingot steel like, say, BG42? I know they are better distributed and such but the individual carbides themselves are smaller? Is it a substantial difference?

Thank you for your time.

Joe
 
Joe,
The individual carbides are smaller. Significantly smaller.
Look at the picture at the bottom right of the first page of this Crucible data sheet.
http://www.crucibleservice.com/PDFs/Knifemaker REV June 2010.pdf

The white chunkies are carbides. You can see how much finer the carbides are in the PM alloy.

Frank R
 
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mete said:
Snow Crash , it's the large amounts of very hard Vanadium carbide in S30V that makes it harder to sharpen.

BTW I'm now carrying a S35VN Sebenza which seems to be half way between S30V and CPM154 , less of a sharpening problem than S30V. These three steels should be sharpened with fine diamond .I sharpen freehand with a 1200 grit diamond.
What's a burr ??
Click to expand...

mete, I'm interested in your assessment of the edge retention. I keep hearing that S35V is easier to sharpen, but has the same edge retention as S30V. I'm not certain that this makes sense to me. I just got a Native5 in S35V, and will be doing some testing, but I'd be interested in your own assessment based on everyday use.
 
razorsdescent said:
uh yeha an edgepro and a sebenza is kinda a dream team. i have the pro model and is superb, best knife sharpener out there. man you really shouldnt touch a knifes edge, anyone on this forum should know better.

and is your tag supposed to come from the book? cause the book is awesome.
Click to expand...

Yep, it's from the book. Still haven't finished it because i'm more focused on william gibson's stuff
 
razorsdescent said:
man you really shouldnt touch a knifes edge, anyone on this forum should know better.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily. It depends HOW you are touching it. Renowned knife maker and teacher Murray Carter uses a three finger method to get a rough feel for the edge's condition.
 
Yeah people usually freak out when I post about checking the blade's edge with my index finger

It's difficult to see everything about the edge that you need to know. Heck, if I could smell and taste the edge I would do those if it would help me improve toward the edge I'm going for.
 
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