Is take-down as good for chopping?

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May 28, 2007
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Talking to someone about making a chopper. I want to use it and I want it to be as good as possible. I should add that there isn't really anything to cut around here so I wont have as much fun as Lorien does with my knife.. But anyhow, do you think a take down would come lose and wear down over time or is it just as good as a solid handle? On the other hand, since I will be chopping is it better to have a take down for the maker to do maintenance here and there? Opinions please..

THANKS!
 
To my notion, the only kind of 'take-down chopper' I'd want is one that the scales could be removed from, if needed....

I'm sure a very satisfactory take-down style blade could be made but it would, theoretically at least, have more propensity for failure because of the extra parts/pieces/threads, etc.

Just my $0.02...
 
I would be more than happy to test a knife constructed in this manner, should anyone care to participate:).

ps. it would have to be WELL MADE, since this type of construction opens a great many doors for potential failure under heavy use.


Jon, what is(are) your reason(s) for wanting a chopper type knife made in this fashion?
 
Perhaps Karl Andersen will weight in here.
He's makes a lot of take-downs, many of which see
substantial use. His opinion on a take-down chopper
will get my attention.
 
Well Kevin, I didn't wanna give it away since we just started loose discussion, but Karl is actually my man for this project. I do have a basic shape I want for the knife, but some details need to be discussed.

Lorien I don't know yet if I want take down or hidden tang. I almost think hidden tang seems wiser for this, but I have no experience. I sorta play with the idea of take-down since A) Karl is building it and is known for these, and B) should anything major happen to the finish or edge a take down might be easier and cheaper to repair.

But hidden tang and solid wood handle seems more shock resistant and more durable, to my untrained brain.

Lorien, I forgot to add that I have never had a chopper and just kinda want to chop stuff!
 
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Well Kevin, I didn't wanna give it away since we just started loose discussion, but Karl is actually my man for this project. I do have a basic shape I want for the knife, but some details need to be discussed.

Sorry to unintentionally let the cat out of the bag. But if you want a take-down chopper, then Karl's a great choice.

You guys could do a "full tang" and as Dawkind suggested have removal scales.
There you have strength and an avenue for maintenance in the event a scale cracks/brakes.
 
Kevin its my fault as I am the one who let the cat out of the bag! I want a solid wood handle so I don't think scales are quite what I have in mind but well see!
 
As far as a take-down holding up - as long as the guard fits the tang/shoulder area without any slop and the front of the handle is file-fitted to the tang, it would probably take action that is not suited to logical knife use to cause any problems.
You will also find NO slop in my pin fit from handle to guard/spacer.
I have beat repeatedly, knife after knife, time after time, on seasoned oak firewood and any other thing I can find around Andersen Forge, and have never experienced any type of failure.
As an aside to this, all of my JS submission knives were take-down, as well as the performance knife. And of course, before any normal thinking JS applicant would head off cross-country to do a performance test, he/she would perform the test over and over again at home with the performance knife.
Which I did.
I won't go into the entire test, but I didn't make a knife that would not just PASS the performance test, I made a knife that DEFIED the performance test.
My blade was so thick and heavy that I could not even insult it on the bend test. I needed a four foot cheater bar to accomplish the 90 degrees, and the knife assembly held up just fine.
I think the properly done take-down construction method is a little either misunderstood, or simply NOT understood.
It's more that just a couple pins and a threaded tang.
The tang runs completely THROUGH the handle creating an integral linear strength that can only happen with the threaded tang pulling everything forward INTO the guard shoulders..
I also quench and spherodize my tangs for really tight grain that makes the tangs themselves difficult to bend without locking the knife in a vise and bending with gloves on.
The only thing I've ever noticed as a result of chopping is that the threaded finial can work loose. So, a little teflon tape on the threads and she stays tight just fine.
Even the knives I make that are not take-down are still assembled with pins connecting the handle and guard and threaded tangs, which PULL everything forward into the guard shoulders. That assembly right there is the strongest hidden tang assembly I know of.
All that said - I don't know a knife that can't be compromised, and mine will hold up while performing any task that should be expected of a knife.
I do a LOT of Damascus, etching of hamons, hot-blued fittings, etc. I like the idea of being able to come back at a later date and tweak anything that needs to be done. The take-down assembly takes care of that.
You know, just use common sense in knife use - don't expect more than the knife is designed to do.
If you want a knife to perpetually abuse, and want no failure ever, just say so and I'd be happy to fill 'er up with epoxy.
It will still be assembled with pins to eliminate lateral twisting and a threaded tang and finial.
 
I don't doubt for a second you'll do the project proud Karl - I look forward to seeing what you two come up with. I am sure it will be cool and that it will be a fierce cutter.

Roger
 
Karl, you're one of the few guys I know of whose take down knives I'd trust for my own uses. In fact, I did almost buy one from you awhile back didn't I?
I think the other Jon snatched it, and by the time it came back up I was broke:(
 
Addendum - all that said, I do make mortised handle knives, the occasional knife with scales, full fixed assembly knives, integrals, etc.
There is just something that is so damned fun about creating a well designed take-down knife that just really makes my day.
This one is off in the wilds of North Carolina right now clearing shooting lanes for next year's deer season:

GDB-1.jpg


GDBa-1.jpg
 
Karl, great info and thanks for writing it! This will be fun and even more fun to use. I just need to learn how to properly sharpen my blades for the ultimate satisfaction!

Just to let you guys know, I am kinda thinking more of a machette look. The stubby flat part at the tip which is much wider then the ricasso end instead of a point as on a bowie.
 
this, with an 8-10" blade would be an awesome chopper, (with not so much guard);
600_Green_Monster1.jpg

I always thought the Fowler approach to design really lends itself to big knives.

Jon, you might want to consider for yourself a knife in the shorter end of the length range, but with really thick stock for power and burliness. The SMC isn't quite 9" in blade, yet it sees more travel time than my other knives with longer blades. The effectiveness comes from the design, the grind and the center of mass.
Living where you live, it might be handy to have a shorter knife for concealment purposes, if you just gotta chop at something in the local park, (not that I'm advocating for such activities;):D). Maybe without TOO shiny a blade as well. Stealthy choppa...

Using a big knife to cut things is a lot of fun! Very satisfying watchin them chips fly and feeling/hearing the *thock* of the blade burying itself into wood or the *snick* as it severs a stem or a branch. I'm sure a lot of people think it's weird, but then again, a lot of people think that knife knuts are weird, so I say 'fly your freak flag high, brother!'
 
Has anyone considered vibration encountered when chopping? From a common sense viewpoint, seems like the more solid the construction, the less vibration transmitted through the handle?

Peter
 
Has anyone considered vibration encountered when chopping? From a common sense viewpoint, seems like the more solid the construction, the less vibration transmitted through the handle?

Peter


Just re-read the last three sentences of my little dissertation.
For Jon's needs, my take-downs will perform any task he requires.
No problem.
For CONSTANT, HARD abuse, there may be other alternatives. That's why I wrote the above.
Like you suggest, "from a common sense viewpoint........", would we take a Turkish Twist auto folder with ivory handles and gold inlay and dress and skin deer with it? Of course not. It is not designed for that. The stresses on the moving parts would cause eventual failure. Even though, in a pinch, one could probably do a deer or two.
But, would you want to use that knife for that task year in and year out? Not likely.
I'm not suggesting my take-downs will stand up to chopping firewood for next year's heating supply. But for clearing limbs and lanes and this and that, and weekend "fun", I guarantee my knives will be up to the task.
And he will enjoy it immensely!
 
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Lorien - I love the larger Fowler-style camp knives and bowies.

Just to let you guys know, I am kinda thinking more of a machette look. The stubby flat part at the tip which is much wider then the ricasso end instead of a point as on a bowie.

Sounds like you are describing a cleaver-style blade profile in a custom chopper:

orig.jpg


Roger
 
What blade steel you guys contemplating using?

Not that far along enough, for sure, yet, Kevin. But possibly W2 with some "activity" on it.
But before that:
I've got the Janesville Show.
I'm doing a collaboration for St. Judes with Lin Rhea and Doug Campbell.
Then the CKCA banquet.
Then the Blade Show.
Not to mention my customer list.......:eek:
 
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