For general purpose use, I absolutley adore my Delica, but I wonder if it is substantial enough to rely on for a defensive knife. I'd like one knife that fills the utility and defense role equally well. I inquired about the BM AFCK in the "general" forum, but I would like to know if there is a Spyderco that could satisfy my needs. I'd really prefer to stick with Spyderco as I've never had bad luck with the two I own or the many I've handled. Thanks in advance for any advice you can lend.
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Is the Delica enough for defense?
- Thread starter JMB
- Start date
copfish
Basic Member
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- Oct 2, 1998
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IMHO, the Military has the best general utility blade made! Heck, great steel (CPM440V), typical Spyderco quality and sharpness... Can't go wrong! Scope around, I have seen them real reasonable. Delicas are great, my feelings are anything is better than nothing! Be safe! Fish
[This message has been edited by copfish (edited 01 July 1999).]
[This message has been edited by copfish (edited 01 July 1999).]
There is the danger that if your defense knife is used for utility, it may not be as sharp as possible when you need it most. If you can, a dedicated defensive knife and a dedicated utility knife would be better.
If you can only carry one, the Military and new Starmate are excellent choices in the higher price / higher quality range. Although my Starmate hasn't arrived yet, my impression is that it is less suited to utility than my Military, but perhaps of a better defensive design, as it has a greater range of grips and a better blade for thrusting.
The Goddard could also be an excellent choice, as it has a great blade shape for nearly every use and one of the best integral guards available in a production folder. I like the micarta version for its tip-down carry, but the liteweight has a better grip and is somewhat cheaper.
A final option might be simply to upgrade to up-size to an Endura. That is certainly the lowest-cost alternative and probably the most capable all-purpose folder for the money anywhere.
Please do consider a dedicated defensive folder, or even better chemical sprays or a firearm if your area allows them.
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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
If you can only carry one, the Military and new Starmate are excellent choices in the higher price / higher quality range. Although my Starmate hasn't arrived yet, my impression is that it is less suited to utility than my Military, but perhaps of a better defensive design, as it has a greater range of grips and a better blade for thrusting.
The Goddard could also be an excellent choice, as it has a great blade shape for nearly every use and one of the best integral guards available in a production folder. I like the micarta version for its tip-down carry, but the liteweight has a better grip and is somewhat cheaper.
A final option might be simply to upgrade to up-size to an Endura. That is certainly the lowest-cost alternative and probably the most capable all-purpose folder for the money anywhere.
Please do consider a dedicated defensive folder, or even better chemical sprays or a firearm if your area allows them.
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-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
- Joined
- Oct 28, 1998
- Messages
- 119
The Delica is perfectly usable as a defensive folder. Erik Remmen proved that long ago with his Delica-oriented classes for law enforcement and the general public.
The key advantages are:
- legal blade length virtually anywhere in the US (your Endura, Police, Military, may be frowned upon by LEOs in cities such as Seattle or Atlanta)
- lightweight (carry it anywhere, carry a couple)
- cheap and easily replaceable
- great ergonomics
- decent edge geometry
The real issues with any self defense tool are training and attitude.
Despite all the wonderful marketing hype (and I'm definitely not picking on Sal here, but other manufacturers), don't believe for a minute your black, tactical, wonder knife is a magic wand that when waved is going to get you out of trouble.
If you don't have the training and mindset to use a knife as a defensive tool, your odds of survival start to diminish.
Think you need that supposed SEAL issue knife for defense? Compare the number of people who are sliced and diced (fatally or not) with box-cutters and kitchen knives to those cut with AFCKs, Militarys, Emersons, etc. Hmmmmm.
At a recent Bujinkan knife seminar, Brin Morgan (a very respected 11th dan who trains SAS and similar folk) was asked about the best type of defensive folder. He said he went through a stage where he had a certain knife for a certain environment or mission, but then realized once the training was ingrained it really didn't matter. At that point, "a knife is a knife. It has a sharp edge. You use it correctly to cut or stab."
Joel
The key advantages are:
- legal blade length virtually anywhere in the US (your Endura, Police, Military, may be frowned upon by LEOs in cities such as Seattle or Atlanta)
- lightweight (carry it anywhere, carry a couple)
- cheap and easily replaceable
- great ergonomics
- decent edge geometry
The real issues with any self defense tool are training and attitude.
Despite all the wonderful marketing hype (and I'm definitely not picking on Sal here, but other manufacturers), don't believe for a minute your black, tactical, wonder knife is a magic wand that when waved is going to get you out of trouble.
If you don't have the training and mindset to use a knife as a defensive tool, your odds of survival start to diminish.
Think you need that supposed SEAL issue knife for defense? Compare the number of people who are sliced and diced (fatally or not) with box-cutters and kitchen knives to those cut with AFCKs, Militarys, Emersons, etc. Hmmmmm.
At a recent Bujinkan knife seminar, Brin Morgan (a very respected 11th dan who trains SAS and similar folk) was asked about the best type of defensive folder. He said he went through a stage where he had a certain knife for a certain environment or mission, but then realized once the training was ingrained it really didn't matter. At that point, "a knife is a knife. It has a sharp edge. You use it correctly to cut or stab."
Joel
- Joined
- Jun 9, 1999
- Messages
- 4,729
The Civilian is an excellent defensive knife. I don't own one (yet) but I handled one at a knife show once, and it has to be one of the most intimidating folders I've ever seen. The curved point on it would tear right in to someone if it needed to be done. If you want to see a pic, go to www.spyderco.com
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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
The best defensive knife is the one you have on you when you need it. Same thing goes for the utility knife. This means if all you've got is your Delica, then that's it (utility or defense).
Reminds me of a quote from Buckaroo Bonzai - Always remember no matter where you go, there you are.
My Civilian is special, but defensive only. I'm still looking for the right utility/defense knife. I have hopes the Matriarch might fill that role for me. Spyderco has so many good knives, it's really hard to decide which is the right one. If I had the money, I'd buy every Spyderco made - wouldn't that be knifenut heaven!
Of course, Corduroy has an excellent point about carrying 2 knives. If you're comfortable carrying 2, you can carry the best utility and best defense knife and they don't have to be the same knife.
Hope you find the right one(s).
Reminds me of a quote from Buckaroo Bonzai - Always remember no matter where you go, there you are.
My Civilian is special, but defensive only. I'm still looking for the right utility/defense knife. I have hopes the Matriarch might fill that role for me. Spyderco has so many good knives, it's really hard to decide which is the right one. If I had the money, I'd buy every Spyderco made - wouldn't that be knifenut heaven!
Of course, Corduroy has an excellent point about carrying 2 knives. If you're comfortable carrying 2, you can carry the best utility and best defense knife and they don't have to be the same knife.
Hope you find the right one(s).
Thanks for the advice so far everyone. I live in Minnesota, so carrying a firearm is unfortunately very out of the question. I'm looking into the vehicle transportation laws to see how I can legally have my Glock 19 in the car with me.
I'm definately comfortable carrying two knives. In fact, right now I most often carry my Delica for utility and my Emerson Raven for defense. However, I have some reservations about my Raven which has led me down this road for the search for the perfect "one knife for all occassions."
I'm definately comfortable carrying two knives. In fact, right now I most often carry my Delica for utility and my Emerson Raven for defense. However, I have some reservations about my Raven which has led me down this road for the search for the perfect "one knife for all occassions."
- Joined
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Sorry about directing you to the wrong site for a pic of the Civilian. I have been there before and knew that they don't have a pic of the Civilian, small brain fart messed with my thinking. Sorry.
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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
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Just because I talk to myself doesn't mean I'm crazy. What's wrong with getting a second opinion?
- Joined
- Feb 23, 1999
- Messages
- 4,855
JMB
The Delicas have been my regular carry knives for more than 5 years. Joel has enumerated a number of reasons why I chose them. I understand the new Delicas have a blade length > 3", which would lead me to modify them to under 3" prior to carry in Seattle.
I carry two, one serrated and one plain edge. This gives me the ability to rapidly deploy a knife with either hand. As side benefits I have both blade styles for utility use, and I can lend a knife to a friend if there's enough work for two people.
For me, the constant use and concurrent facility I develop when utilizing these knives for utility purposes outweighs any slight sharpness advantage of a virgin blade. But I do sharpen them frequently, and I must agree that having a sharp knife when needed is crucial.
Skill with a blade far outweighs blade length and virtually all other factors in defensive use. It is a mistake to trust in a mechanism of any type to replace the proper skill and attitude. But skill is harder to acquire than the latest "tactical" folder.
[This message has been edited by Howard Wallace (edited 02 July 1999).]
The Delicas have been my regular carry knives for more than 5 years. Joel has enumerated a number of reasons why I chose them. I understand the new Delicas have a blade length > 3", which would lead me to modify them to under 3" prior to carry in Seattle.
I carry two, one serrated and one plain edge. This gives me the ability to rapidly deploy a knife with either hand. As side benefits I have both blade styles for utility use, and I can lend a knife to a friend if there's enough work for two people.
For me, the constant use and concurrent facility I develop when utilizing these knives for utility purposes outweighs any slight sharpness advantage of a virgin blade. But I do sharpen them frequently, and I must agree that having a sharp knife when needed is crucial.
Skill with a blade far outweighs blade length and virtually all other factors in defensive use. It is a mistake to trust in a mechanism of any type to replace the proper skill and attitude. But skill is harder to acquire than the latest "tactical" folder.
[This message has been edited by Howard Wallace (edited 02 July 1999).]
Double Edge Dave
Moderator and Gold Member
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- Mar 27, 1999
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- 1,379
a solution that works for me is to carry a Q on my keychain for utility purposes,leaving a clipped knife on the pocket for emergency/defense purposes.This keeps the larger knife in good condition for when "Murphy" comes to call.Price-wise, 1 Q and 1 Endura should be pretty close to a single military with more flexability.
Be Sharp
David
AKTI#A0000150
Be Sharp
David
AKTI#A0000150
I'd actually been thinking about going with the set-up that Howard said he uses for a while now. I just placed my order at the Knife Center for a plain edged Delica 98. I'd buy it locally, but everyone around here only carries serrated or partially serrated Spydies. I like the idea of the Military, but it's kind of pricey for my college depleted wallet. Also, I've come to prefer lockbacks over linerlocks, and the "tip-up" carry. I also have small hands, and the Endura is just too much for me to be comfortable with.
The straight edged Delica will be my main utility folder, and the serrated version will primarily be my defensive folder. Of course there will be some crossover with uses, but I'll just make sure to keep them sharp. Next up is to find some training books or videos to help me out. I don't have the time or money to pay for live training, and I don't know if there really is any defensive knife classes to be had in MN.
And if I ever find myself in the land of rain and coffee (Seattle), I still have my pre-98 Delica to carry there.
Thanks again for the advice everyone.
The straight edged Delica will be my main utility folder, and the serrated version will primarily be my defensive folder. Of course there will be some crossover with uses, but I'll just make sure to keep them sharp. Next up is to find some training books or videos to help me out. I don't have the time or money to pay for live training, and I don't know if there really is any defensive knife classes to be had in MN.
And if I ever find myself in the land of rain and coffee (Seattle), I still have my pre-98 Delica to carry there.
Thanks again for the advice everyone.
Sal Glesser
Moderator
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JMB - The forumites sure make my job easier. Lots of good advice. I must say I agree with Joel and Howard. Erik's logic is excellent.
sal
sal
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I also read where a well known knife aficianado / fighter (possibly Michael Janich?), can't remember who, used to carry 2 Delica's at all times. One accessible to either hand. Not a bad idea!