is the guard really that useful ?

C

Core

Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
60
Just received a MMHW K 19 bowie with a 12 inch blasde and brass guard. I really like it.

Just wondering after looking at a number of big bowies whether the guard is really useful other than preventing the hand from slipping into onto the blade. I have read that for a guard to be useful it has to be at least 3/4 inch long. I have seen a number of guards on both knivies and swords and wonder no matter how long of a guard you can still be cut on the hand. Unless a full baskethilt the guard of any other type is of minor protection.

My question is of practical application not how good some guards look which I have seem many. Some of the longer guards to me at least look cumbersome.

Any opinions ?
 
I would think that even if a guard does nothing other than keeping your hand from sliding down the blade, it would be worth having, and very practical.

I'm always amazed at the number of knives I see with non textured or otherwise smooth grips and no guard...just seems like a serious accident waiting to happen. On a knife marketed for "hard use" or "defense", a guard would certainly seem to be a requirement.
On the other hand, I guess I guard would be optional on "fantasy" knives and others of that ilk.
 
Core, How do like the knife?Last week I ordered the Deep Woods bowie,12" blade,sharpened false edge,no gaurd. I thought about the guard but to me,that brass gaurd on a black knife looked cheesy. John was great to deal with on the phone. What was the turn around time for you?
 
Hello Stonehedge

The K19 bowie with a 12 inch blade is what I wanted and expected in a big bowie knife. I was at first suprise by the weight around 2 lbs. The blade is 2.5 inches wide> I to had the clip sharpen. Very sharp and well made. Not fancy but a hard user knife that appears to be able to take abuse. This knife can chop, slash and to a decent level thrust. It can slice , but, not to the same level as some of my other blade. All around a heavy duty blade that can handle most duties. Would not be a quick as some of the those "fighting bowies" but this one would over whem/power them if use properly.

Fit and finish is good. As I said user fit not polish as a display knife. The guard does not look chessy at all. Guard appears to be cast with good clean lines and very tight fit. The micarta handlea also fit tight. Not polish like my Randle No 1 but still nice. Full tang and comfortable to hold in a variety of positions.

Sheath is only OK plan to get a leather one made that can be used for more than one position. The sheath is a little different because the studs the bind it do not go all the way up the back but stop half way. Diffently want one that I can use to carry the knife more than one way just need to fine the design and the right person to make it.\

Hope this help.
 
Guards are like home insurance; useles, until something bad happens. For the average, light user type person, a guard might interfere with soing some work. But for many chores, it is WAY better to have that insurance there. As far as fighters go, sometimes a guard will block an opponent's blade. Soem guards, as noted are designed with this specifically in mind (basket hilt). Blade catchers are also used on some guards.

I just got a MEUK from Allen Blade and it has a guard on it. And I wouldn't want it any other way for my intended uses. We have a tendency to think short term. If you think your hand could, or may slip onto the blade doing the work you do with a knife, a guard should be present. I worked in a hog plant 2 summers and almost every knife had a guard of some sorts, for good reason.
 
The Scandanavian "puukko" has been around for centuries. It has stood the test of time. It has no guard.

Paul
 
Most guards on swords weren't there to block attacks, they were there mainly to keep your hands from sliding onto the blade. But, complex hilts like baskethilts and rapiers, stuff like that, where made to protect the hand as well.

BryanH
 
puukkos don't have guards, but I bet they aren't used traditionally like a lot of other knives. A guard is cheap insurance. Why not use one? Wouldn't you feel more comfortable using a knife hard that has a guard? I sure do.
 
Originally posted by Paul Work
The Scandanavian "puukko" has been around for centuries. It has stood the test of time. It has no guard.

Paul
Click to expand...

I read at some Norwegian knife dealer's site that Pukkos DO have guards. At least the knives intended for children have guards. One of the rites of passage to manhood is removing the guard. When you're old enough, and handle a knife well enough you get to play with the men's toys!
 
Originally posted by BryanH
Most guards on swords weren't there to block attacks, they were there mainly to keep your hands from sliding onto the blade. But, complex hilts like baskethilts and rapiers, stuff like that, where made to protect the hand as well.

BryanH
Click to expand...

Maybe that's true of some Eastern swords, but with Western blades, the quillions have always been an integral and invaluable part of the sword and it's employment.

The most simple quillions, as found on the basic Cruciform swords were used for trapping, hooking, and blocking on a regular basis.

Your comments on the rapiers and baskethilts are basically correct. The D-rings, knuckle bows, pierced plates etcetera were all there to protect the hand, but many of them also had an S-curved quillion that was/is useful as a trapping/hooking tool.
 
On the use of PUUKKO. Most are fairly short bladed ( 7 - 11 cm) and they are used as such knives have been used for for about 2000 years.
Anglo-Saxons have this weapon mentality about knives, puukko has been an every day tool and only secondarily a weapon. (Until some idiot exported/imported the weapon aspect here and things have legally changed for worse.)

I have been using a puukko for 40 years and never had a slip that a guard would have prevented. In fact any guard is in the way for general tool use.

From snowy Finland
TLM
 
No. Never got any cuts to the hand that wields the knife/puukko. Several on the other hand...

I can only think two situation where one needs guards: 1. when one intends to stab something 2.when one intends to block incoming cut/stab with blade and thus there is possibility that the incoming blade will slide to hand.

If you intend to use bovie as a chopper you shoud consider the real thing - your hand sliding backwards.

Tommi from not currently so snowy Finland
 
I just came back home from north Tommi so I still remember that, plenty of snow there.


I have never had to fight with a knife but found a lot of other uses for one.

TLM
 
I agree with mikemck. If the guard keeps your hand off the blade, that is all it has to do. I can get lots of things, but I can't get any new fingers. I like a good, sturdy single guard. I saw the Ek daggers without guards in their catalog. They stated that if used with a tight grip, no guards are necessary. To me, this is folly of the first order. Mistakes happen, you shouldn't have to pay for one with your fingers.
 
Fudo, you and I are on the same page here. I'm sure that most of the times I've used a knife, or maybe all of the times I've used a knife, a guard has only "gotten in the way." But it is that one time where your hand may get tired, or the knife point slips off the piece of wood, or whatever, where you will pay with a finger.

When I was working in the hog plant, I learned a lot about long-term use of a knife. Use one all day and the fatigue factor really coms to mind. people can slip all the time. That is why we wore metal mesh gauntlets, plastic forarm protectors, metal aprons and had guards on our knives. And still accidents happenned. I don't look at a guard as getting in the way. I just have to adjust the way I use the knife, that is all. And my fingers are safer for it.
 
As Paul Work stated there is very clear evidence that most of northern europe has not traditionally used guards on most of their SMALL knives. And used for several times longer than USA has existed. All that time with close contacts to continental europe where different types of guards have been in use, so the example was there.

The reason for this is most propably a different emphasis on using which tool to what work. Puukko is typically not a chopping tool (Lapps exempted, a Leuku is!). If I want to chop I take an ax, hatchet, billhook or what ever you want to call it ;>)

If someone wants to used a guarded knife fine, evidence is very clear though that it is not a necessary feature for succesfull usage.

From a different tradition

TLM
 
Looking into some other traditions than Scandinavian - in Nepal khukuris - no guard - kardas - no guard. In China at least the smaller utility knives that I've seen - no guards. Japanese utility knives no guards...

TLM you are right lots of more snow when you leave this **** coastal area. I was visiting my in laws last weekend in Jyväskylä and there was 50-60cm snow.
 
On large working knives, I prefer a single guard of some substance or a handle with wood contoured to provide the protection of the guard in the index finger area. You can sort of work around the top guard on well designed knives (i.e. guard isn't sharp when you choke up, or really tall). Big double guards look cool, but if you are going to use it in the field, well, they tend to get in the way. That hasn't stopped me from owning great knives like the Brend Model 2.

On hunting sized knives, again, single guard only, and nothing resembling a guard on bump/hump on the spine on top. Jimping or small cross-serrations on the spine are ok if not sharp, but I like a radiused smooth spine as well or better. On this sized knife, after having larger guards get in my way, I prefer something pretty small so that it doesn't get in the way. The Fallkniven F1 and Dozier's stuff is about right...Scott Cook's Owyhee hunters are also. Full guards on Loveless styled hunters don't get in the way too much if they are minimal (say 3/8" of "guard" from where handle to tip of guard).

On defense pieces, again single guard or contour sufficient to protect the index finger during a thrust/stab. I just can't imagine that the upper guard would ever be really used to parry or block an incoming blade in reality, but if you are into knife fighting (professionally? armchair?), then what the he.ll.

In defensive folders, a few that come to mind that represent adequate grips for true defense folders, IMHO:
Emerson Mach-I and Commander
Tighe Vanguard Tighephoon (Les Roberston)
Terzuola ATCF
DDR Vanguard EDC
 
Just like blade style, I guess guards are a matter of personal preference. I'll take either no guard or a very small guard any day.

Paul
 
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