Is The Knockoff Status/Fake Knives Still As Bad As Ever?

GatorFlash1

GatorFlash1

Joined
May 28, 2012
Messages
3,189
I hope not having seen all kinds of junk Spydercos sold by all kinds of dealers on all kinds of websites. I'm still a bit paranoid about dropping a bunch of money into a Spyderco that turns out to be a very good knockoff of the real deal.

 
Some are getting so good even an "expert" has trouble recognizing them as such. There should be some good YouTube video's on them, you may have to dig a bit. Pretty scary and I think the Manufacturers like that so you will buy only from their approved dealers, I am sure their are other factors at work too since the fakes are made offshore. The new pricing guidelines have pretty much killed the discounters anyway. The fakes can pop up anywhere(even seen them for sale on here). It has definitely dampened my enthusiasm for the new styles. Luckily I like the old discontinued ones more and fake ones of those I have not seen(at least the ones I buy).
 
The manufactures don't like the fakes, as they tarnish the reputation of the company in the eyes of most people who don't have the ability to find out that their knife is a fake. As far as pricing and approved dealers, its a risk the manufacturer has to deal with. In the past, and in other industries, dealers have used their weight to damage manufacturers for their own gain.
 
nephron said:
Some are getting so good even an "expert" has trouble recognizing them as such. There should be some good YouTube video's on them, you may have to dig a bit. Pretty scary and I think the Manufacturers like that so you will buy only from their approved dealers, I am sure their are other factors at work too since the fakes are made offshore. The new pricing guidelines have pretty much killed the discounters anyway. The fakes can pop up anywhere(even seen them for sale on here). It has definitely dampened my enthusiasm for the new styles. Luckily I like the old discontinued ones more and fake ones of those I have not seen(at least the ones I buy).
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There have been fake versions of knives since at least the 80s, buying old or discontinued patterns is no guarantee of legitimacy.

Manufactorers do not "like" fakes, each one is a nail in the coffin of their most popular patterns.
 
I'm not way ahead of the game on this stuff, because if there is an article written, obviously someone is making noise. But I suspect that Amazon will be making moves within the next year to reduce the 3rd party sellers moving counterfeits as more large companies start putting contracts out that their product cannot be sold via Amazon. The River is big, but there are some boats pushing hard upstream. Names like Nike.
 
Depends on the knife, I don’t buy PM2 off eBay. Way to risky! However I have bought several other knives, I scored my smock off eBay. I stick to the legit knife stores for about half my purchases. I like bidding on ebay for knives it’s fun!

I have bought 2 fakes, 1 I knew was fake and other was picture swap.
 
brownshoe said:
There have been fake versions of knives since at least the 80s, buying old or discontinued patterns is no guarantee of legitimacy.

Manufactorers do not "like" fakes, each one is a nail in the coffin of their most popular patterns.
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The fakes back in the eighties were so bad, China hadn't really entered it to it like now. I have been collecting knives since the '60's.
If they hate them so much why don't they try harder to stop them.
 
nephron said:
The fakes back in the eighties were so bad, China hadn't really entered it to it like now. I have been collecting knives since the '60's.
If they hate them so much why don't they try harder to stop them.
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Because china's government doesn't follow our ip laws, and it's not illegal to copy or counterfeit products over there. Sal has talked about this before. Something along the lines of someone thanked him for creating a knife pattern that he could copy to feed his family.

Different culture, and with the government not fighting it as well we will probably have counterfeits for the foreseeable future.
 
soc_monki said:
Because china's government doesn't follow our ip laws, and it's not illegal to copy or counterfeit products over there. Sal has talked about this before. Something along the lines of someone thanked him for creating a knife pattern that he could copy to feed his family.

Different culture, and with the government not fighting it as well we will probably have counterfeits for the foreseeable future.
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Its probably not cost effective to fight the makers and maybe not the sellers, but seeing such obvious fakes on EBay, Amazon, etc. is disappointing, where $ can be made I guess fakes will always be with us. I wonder if the 3D Printers are contributing.
 
Thanks for the info. I was just curious as to whether or not the big websites had instituted a good system to stop imported fakes, something I'd really like to see. When they are selling junk at the Blade Show I get concerned,
 
GatorFlash1 said:
Thanks for the info. I was just curious as to whether or not the big websites had instituted a good system to stop imported fakes, something I'd really like to see. When they are selling junk at the Blade Show I get concerned,
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Its taking some time, but it will happen, knives will not be the leading edge (hah). What's going to happen is that someone is going to trace a house fire to a bad bit of electronics, or a child is going to be injured by a faked bit of safety gear, something along those lines. It will probably be several someones, and then we will see some sort of change. Right now most parents are checking the stuff they buy because they know that they cannot fully trust product recalls and so often are just returning, or tossing out stuff that isn't good, and the individual seller is just "whack-a-moled" and is back operational under a new name a few days later. The manufacturers are smart enough for the most part to make products that are not insanely unsafe (though they do still happen) Its just stuff that is going to be used under more controlled conditions, adding that safety factor. That's where the regulation is going to come from. As far as policy changes, expect action by some of the big brands trying to limit sales of the fakes, but that is going to be a huge task. The math comes down to, reputation cost versus money cost for enforcement. Its looking like more companies are unable to keep eating the reputation cost. Ultimately, it may prove out that the business model of the big river and other warehousing service providers is just incompatible with keeping the other big brands and regulation happy. Without the reach, there is no profit model for the counterfeits outside of mall pop-up shops and dollar stores. The third-party sellers are where the profit is for the warehouser, so without them the business model has to change. But the shift is going to need a huge push just due to the profits that are generated by the third-party sellers. It will be interesting to see if consumer protection regs hit first, or if its lawsuits from big brands. That is a question too open for me to put money either way.
 
gadgetgeek said:
Its taking some time, but it will happen, knives will not be the leading edge (hah). What's going to happen is that someone is going to trace a house fire to a bad bit of electronics, or a child is going to be injured by a faked bit of safety gear, something along those lines. It will probably be several someones, and then we will see some sort of change. Right now most parents are checking the stuff they buy because they know that they cannot fully trust product recalls and so often are just returning, or tossing out stuff that isn't good, and the individual seller is just "whack-a-moled" and is back operational under a new name a few days later. The manufacturers are smart enough for the most part to make products that are not insanely unsafe (though they do still happen) Its just stuff that is going to be used under more controlled conditions, adding that safety factor. That's where the regulation is going to come from. As far as policy changes, expect action by some of the big brands trying to limit sales of the fakes, but that is going to be a huge task. The math comes down to, reputation cost versus money cost for enforcement. Its looking like more companies are unable to keep eating the reputation cost. Ultimately, it may prove out that the business model of the big river and other warehousing service providers is just incompatible with keeping the other big brands and regulation happy. Without the reach, there is no profit model for the counterfeits outside of mall pop-up shops and dollar stores. The third-party sellers are where the profit is for the warehouser, so without them the business model has to change. But the shift is going to need a huge push just due to the profits that are generated by the third-party sellers. It will be interesting to see if consumer protection regs hit first, or if its lawsuits from big brands. That is a question too open for me to put money either way.
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That already happened. In the 80s-90s there was a huge surge in counterfeit aircraft parts that ultimately lead to a crash and 55 deaths.
 
Danke42 said:
That already happened. In the 80s-90s there was a huge surge in counterfeit aircraft parts that ultimately lead to a crash and 55 deaths.
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From what I hear, its likely to happen again. One of the factors that happened within that time is that newer designs built in bigger margins, but there are a lot of rumblings of broken parts, non-spec fasteners in the supply chains. However Boeing's choice to go back to engineering some of those margins (which already cost them two aircraft) as well as offshored maintenance by some airlines (quantas and others) It really just proves how robust some of those old designs are. We had the Tatanka (probably spelled wrong) airbag thing, and that was just a specification problem and aging. What happens if the next one is brake-lines? Cleaning the supply chains for most industries is actually pretty easy, you just have to be willing to pay fair. Cutting costs is always going to come home to roost some time.
 
The Takata air bags. Nothing like getting a face full of shrapnel from something trying to help save your life!
 
Theres a lot of cheapskates out there that would like to save money and buy a fake just to have a similar style to the real one at a much lower price; these are the numskulls keeping it alive and well,as well as the flea markets and similar stores that sell cheap "car bumper" or gas station knives....
 
It is a shame that anyone selling anything counterfeit on the big retail or auction websites like Amazon isn't put on a bad boy listing of some sort and permanently banned from all the retail websites. It would be sort of like your junk email folder. If you had any doubts you could search for the name and see if the seller was a bad boy or not. If you get conned then the seller goes to the bad boy website. I know this sounds sexist but you know what I'm saying. We don't need any more Bernie Madoff knife seller types although I wouldn't mind it a bit of some got 150 years in the clink.
 
GatorFlash1 said:
It is a shame that anyone selling anything counterfeit on the big retail or auction websites like Amazon isn't put on a bad boy listing of some sort and permanently banned from all the retail websites. It would be sort of like your junk email folder. If you had any doubts you could search for the name and see if the seller was a bad boy or not. If you get conned then the seller goes to the bad boy website. I know this sounds sexist but you know what I'm saying. We don't need any more Bernie Madoff knife seller types although I wouldn't mind it a bit of some got 150 years in the clink.
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The bad sellers just drop their name and come back with a new one. The list would be unmanageable.

So while a list of bad players is problematic; the list of good players is already on here and really easy to find.
 
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