is the mad dog knife on ebay authentic?

Hmmm...well, I have two mint condition knives from the SEAL run. A605 and A936. These were produced near the beginning of, and near the end of, the production run. Production started at A 500, and stopped around A 1,000. Both my knives have been examined by Kevin 'Mad Dog' McClung, and declared genuine.

There are signigicant differences between my knives and the one in question.

The marking on my knives is on the blade beyond the choil, not next to the handle as on the blade in question (BIQ). The 'M' in 'Mad Dog' is directly over the 'S' in 'S.E.A.L,' not offset as on the BIQ.

The edge on both my knives starts well beyond the choil, not at the choil as on the BIQ.

The choil on both my knives is the old, first generation vertical choil; the taper of the blade starts at about the same distance along the blade at the spine and at the edge. This gives the choil a vertical appearance when viewed from the side. The BIQ has a diagonal choil, with the taper at the spine starting further out along the blade than the taper at the edge, giving the choil a diagonal appearance when viewed from the side. This is the current configuration found on MD knives, but not, to my knowledge, on the S.E.A.L, or early first gen ATAKS (which were the subsequent production models, lacking the sharpened false edge, and having the marking as follows: MAD DOG / SEAL ATAK2). The earlier S.E.A.L. production, were marked: MAD DOG / S.E.A.L. / A.T.A.K. / A XXX (where XXX is a number between 500 and 1,000 roughly).

The choil meets the spine at or before the third file notch on my knives, not beyond the fourth file mark (on the right, marked, side) as on my knives.

Further, the knife in question is obviously worn badly; to present this knife has having only sheath wear is ridiculous.

Bottom line, I think fake. A third gen ATAK with some file work and markings placed in the wrong place. The way to tell for sure is to contact Mad Dog at tacticalforums.com, or Scott Moore, who has an extremely good collection of S.E.A.L. knives, including some early MD prototypes. Scott's e-mail addy is mooreknive@aol.com

The price for the S.E.A.L. models runs from about $1,000-$1,500, mint, depending on the collector and the specimen. Walt
 
Hello,

Yea its real,,but that Kalgaurd sure hates sticking to Hardchrome, as you can see...8-)

Allen
 
Allen,
It's an honor. I have followed your career since you were working for Kevin in Southern California. Knowing your history, I would assume that you were the one that actually ground that blade. Am I correct? If so, I think I will bid on it.
Thanks.
TK
 
Is it just my monitor or the fact that I just love bashing Mad Dog, but doesn't the handle appear to have a problem? If you look closely you can see the super secret proprietary handle material panels (G-10) appears to be uneven or seperated. It may be just the way the light has reflected off them but it is right in the spot where thay are glued, I mean magically adhered, together. None of the ATAKs I have here look like that. I would contact the owner before bidding.

------------------
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Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
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Interesting that the knife was never used and yet the sheath did that much damage. I know on one I owned the sheath damaged the finish as well but I did'nt have mine as long as this fellow so mine didn't get that bad and I sent mine back for refinishing before I sold it. I also never used my knife except to show people.

I would say it looks like an authentic Seal.

Walt,
Based on the fact that my knife's finish got worn from the sheath and I sent it back for refinishing, I would say that the seller is telling the truth. I owned my knife for about a year and a half. The knife was a custom Kevin named Sliver. The sheath was abrasive.
 
kniphe,

If you're interested in Allen's knives, you can buy a new combat patrol bowie from him for a lot less than that ATAK...

Ryan

------------------
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23


 
I contacted Scott Moore about this knife. Hopefully he will give us the benefit of his vast knowledge. Walt
 
I've seen some of Scott's old pieces at the BAKCA show in South San Francisco that looked a LOT like that. The kydex would scrape the kalguard off of the blade in just about that fashion...

Mike, the "grip damage" you're referring to seems to me to be a reflection of light off of the glass table up onto the very lower edge. I say that because the same glint can be seen at the tip of the lower guard, and the guard material is NOT laminated in the same fashion. Here's the pic in question:
md1.jpg


Some of the other pics bear this out:

md2.jpg


md3.jpg


So...it would appear it's genuine, and in usable shape. I'll leave "collector value" estimations to others but it's not in the "ripoff" category.

Jim
 
Hey, Turber, you turkey! Er, ah, that is, 'the kniphe'; here is the opinion of Kevin 'Mad Dog' McClung, with some editorial snipping to try and maintain the peace and decorum of this forum:

Walt,
I finally got the ebay pictures to load out properly.
Comments on the knife:
I can not "authenticate" it without actually seeing it in person.
It is probably genuine, but it has also seen a lot of use. Despite this, it
appears to be in good, servicable condition. The grip looks fine, and there
is no corrosion on the blade evident in the photos. Considering the fact
that it evidently saw some eight years of continuous use, it looks great.
I can find out where and when it was originally shipped.

Allen certainly didn't grind it. The only knives Allen ground in my shop
were pre production knives, and he did damned few of them. He did more work
on grips than anything else, and damned little of that to boot. He also did
some Kydex, but his work was not very good. I hope for his sake that he has
improved.
He spent most of his time... (further comments about the allegedly deplorable work habits of one Allen Blade deleted. WW)

The CNSWG and all subsequent A series knives were partially machine ground,
and I hand finished them. We used three different vendors for the grinding
over the next couple of years. they all sucked, which is why I spent so
much time finishing/regrinding, etc..
The text in the sale offer is bogus, because there is a lot of wear on the
sheath (note the wear on the rivets and the scarring on the Kydex?), and
the sheaths do not remove THAT much Kalguard. Also note the corrosion that
appears in the snaps. The knife has almost undoubtedly been used during
saline aquatic activity.
If the sheath is matching numbered too, it is probably original.
I do not think I personally made that sheath, it is too wide. It was
probably made by one of the other workers I had in the shop then. They
varied a bit.
It is certainly worth the asking price, but its' collector value will be
badly diminished unless a letter from the SEAL it was issued to accompanies
it, as well as a copy of his DD214 (mode of service document)
even if I authenticate the knife, and show a document that has it shipping
to the SEALs.

I doubt that this will happen, due to the fact that the knife was probably
stolen from the Teams by the person that sold it to the current owner. The
knives were sign out issued and not sold or given to the operators. They
had to sign for them just like a firearm, and return them when their hitch
ended.
That is why we serialized them at the Navy's request, and that is another
reason so few of them show up in the civilian market. They were harder to
steal.
I only made 256 of the CNSWG marked knives before the Navy asked for a
marking change such that the Navy knives would indistinguishable from the
civilian version, which up to that time had been otherwise identical.

Mad Dog
Click to expand...

In another communication, Kevin estimated that with the proper provenance, as detailed above, the knife may be worth around $2,000. He further advised that the markings indicated that it went to the West Coast S.E.A.L. Team.

Hope this helps,

Saint Walter the Illuminated, CTT
 
Hello,,

"Deplorable Work habits" interesting,,

i was always told ya get what ya pay for, i guess i would have been alittle more enthusiastic while at MD knives if KEVIN had PAID ME!!

And no i didnt grind that blade,,,the blades i ground were actually Symetrical and Tru in Grind.
8-)

As to My Kydex Making Ability Improving,,,
LMFAO!!!! Maybe i should send KEVIN my sheathmaking video and let him Catch up To current Forming Trends and Quality.

He should know better than to make staments like that and not get a Responce,

And by the way WALT since Kevin always has to have somone Reply/speak for him,let him Know if he wants to COMPARE knife or SHEATHMAKING
Quality Just let me know........8-)

See ya,,,,,,Allen

[This message has been edited by Allen Blade (edited 05-10-2000).]
 
Thanks for the input,
I emailed the current owner and he stated that the story told to him by the officer that recently got out was that, for most of its life, it was stored in one of the "cargo containers" where they keep all of their gear..whatever that is. He didn't say much about how he got it, but did say that the serial number does not have an A in front. It is just the 3 digit number and that it is authentic.

Walt, since there were only 256 made this seems to me that this knife pre-dates yours?

I guess the value would be somewhere around $1,500 ?
Thanks
 
Kevin e-mailed me, expressing his disapproval of my posting his candid, and he presumed, private, e-mail. He advised me that he had no intent of defaming Allen Blade, or anyone else, and that my posting of his remarks has caused him considerable distress.

I apologize to Kevin and Allen for my breach of ettiquette, and poor judgement.

I thought that his remarks would be taken in context. That is to say, when a person who works 12 to 14 hours a day, 7 days a week, states that another person is lacking in diligence and work ethic, another more objective person may opine that the person criticized actually works very hard.

Knifemakers as a whole tend to be very industrious, hard working people. Anyone who thinks making knives is an easy way to make money is foolish.

Allen, I hope you, and the other posters, will forgive me my breach of manners, and not use this incident as a springboard to start another bout of Mad Dog 'bashing.'

My only (extremely weak) sort-of explanation is that I have been out of the work force, i.e. retired, for just over five years now, and have somewhat forgotten the pride that industrious people have for their performance. I could tell you what Kevin thinks of my (non-existant) work ethic, but that would cause the censorship proggy to have a melt down.
wink.gif


Kniphe: here is what Kevin said about this series of knives:

The CNSWG marked knives were the first production ATAKs. They predate all
of the other production ATAKs.
Click to expand...

Therefore, you are right, the knife in question does indeed predate my knives, which are the 'A' series. Regarding the value, the provenance is the important part of the package for a collector, so without a valid provenance, I would not care to venture an estimate of value. Certainly the poor condition also would be a mitigating factor.

Once again, I apologize to Allen and Kevin, and hope that you will both view this occasion as an opportunity to display forgiveness and a high threshold of tolerance.

Walt
 
Boy, it's not often that I get to toss in a couple of my favorite sayings...

  • You Reap What You Sow
    [*]Judge not, lest Ye be judged
    [*]Those who live in glass houses should't throw stones.


ETC, ad nauseum.

Just some things for everyone to keep in mind...

Spark

------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here


[This message has been edited by Spark (edited 05-11-2000).]
 
I thought you had to x-ray the handle,test the blade RC hardness, and then be in doubt about the authenticity of the knife, maybe I am wrong.
 
I thought you had to x-ray the handle,test the blade RC hardness, and then be in doubt about the authenticity of the knife, maybe I am wrong.
 
Walt,
I must say that this began as a very civil Mad Dog thread until your post. You not only threw the logs on the fire but the gasoline and the match.
smile.gif


To boot, Kevin didn't know you were posting his private email. Walter, Walter, Walter! What are we to do with you.
 
Hello,

No Harm WALT, and i to Must Apologize for my becomming Offended , wasnt a very Christian like Attitude to exibit, my apologies.

Regards,,, Allen
 
Having a few Allen Blade blades (I like that!) I would have to say again, guys this Blademaker knows what he is doing! Grinds are clean and even. Kydex work is some of the best I have seen! I would rate Allen Blade's blades a best buy! Now for the SEAL, I am bidding on it because the price is right.
 
This all would not be so difficult if Mad Dog would speak (Bark) for himself. He is welcome here at BFC and his name is not censored
smile.gif


I understand that he may not wish to venture into what is perceived by him as "enemy territory" but history dictates that when makers do show up and speak for themselves amazing and fun things happen. Not to mention they gain huge respect from their followers. Of course Mad Dog has a great following and may feel the is no need to come here and that is his right.

------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
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