Is the over travel stop in the Umnumzaan needed?

Screwdriver

Screwdriver

Joined
Feb 27, 2010
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I got a 25 as a gift but see that the Umnumzaan has an over travel stop on the newer models......Was bending the lock an issue? All my ZT's have them, but I always felt it was more for looks.
 
I've wondered the same thing. It has never been an issue on my 21. But hey, it's definitely not a negative, so it wont stop me from making a purchase.
 
No, its not needed as it was not on the original zaan design. The reason it was changed is that people kept bending the lock bar and was then having lockup issues claiming it was a factory issue, when the issues was indeed caused by them. To elevate this, CRK put the lockbar stop on to keep people from doing so. The lcokbar stop has changed in design to being plain to now having the CRK logo.
 
It's not needed and I personally find it hard to believe there was really enough knives messed up by their owners for it to need to be introduced. I don't know if it was a descision made after seeing 1 knife or 1000 knives, but it could/should have been executed in a different way, IMO. Using a pin or plate on the inside of the lock bar would have dissolved most if not all dislike for it and still hit all the same targets. :)

I'm good though, I have enough original Umnumzaans to last me a lifetime and more. :p
 
The sebenza has never needed it and there hasn't been issues with people lessening lockup on the sebbie. If anything, people gripe about lockup % ( ME, I like 50%.....lol ). I think at the time the zaan was a new design and people did not understand it and how it functions, so your "sunday mechanics" took it upon themselves to "fix it" only to realize it did not need fixing and they messed it up. So off to CRK it went. I am thinking there were quite a few or CRK would not have changed it. Was it 50, 100, 1000, only CRK knows for sure, but definitely enough for them to say, lets change this because we are tired of people messing them up and having to fix them.
 
Hi,
there has been written a lot about the LBS, be sure to look that up.
From what I understand Rick Hinderer is assigned with the developement of the LBS and he felt the need for people who use their knives under extreme circumstances (stressfull situations).
IMHO under normal use it will not need it - but then most knives are overbuild.
hope this helps
red mag
 
The Umnumzaan was the first CRK with a ceramic ball interface, was it not?

I think people might have looked at the lock bar and, not realizing that the ball is toward one side of the bar, not in the middle of it, they thought they had late lockup.

While the bar looks farther over than it is on another CRK (except of course now on a 25) the ball position is what really matters. And why people felt the need to bend that bar outward trying to "fix it" themselves is beyond me.

Regardless, in my mind, an old-pivot 'Zaan looks so much better than a new one and I wish CRK would re-introduce it. But knowing that is almost certain not to happen, at least I have one, without the locking bar nor Idaho Made stamp, and that is really all I need. It is arguably the favorite CRK I have, and a Wilson Combat old pivot is always in my sights if I come across one.
 
I like the LBS, and wish they had one on the 25 as well. I doubt it's absolutely needed, but it's a nice touch and makes the knife seem more 'complete'.
 
Haze said:
It's not needed and I personally find it hard to believe there was really enough knives messed up by their owners for it to need to be introduced. I don't know if it was a descision made after seeing 1 knife or 1000 knives, but it could/should have been executed in a different way, IMO. Using a pin or plate on the inside of the lock bar would have dissolved most if not all dislike for it and still hit all the same targets. :)

I'm good though, I have enough original Umnumzaans to last me a lifetime and more. :p
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree with you more !
Not only is it not needed but once the decision was made to put it on the knife CRK should've done it in a better way.
Like you, I've carried the Umnum for years and use it daily, I've had no issues.
Thankfully I still have 2 old pivot Zaan's with no L-BS to mess up the aesthetics.
 
I bought my first Umnumzaan , new, about a month ago. After spending some time with it I couldn't quit thinking about how ridiculous the people that had problems over extending the lock must have been.
It really works perfectly.
 
lathrop said:
I bought my first Umnumzaan , new, about a month ago. After spending some time with it I couldn't quit thinking about how ridiculous the people that had problems over extending the lock must have been.
It really works perfectly.
Click to expand...

However, as one previous poster noted, this knife was geared towards heavy use under stressful situations-- and when that happens the operator could apply extreme force and deform the lock bar.

That was my guess too and still think that is the reason for the over travel stop (Not a stabilizer) being there.
 
Wavicle said:
However, as one previous poster noted, this knife was geared towards heavy use under stressful situations-- and when that happens the operator could apply extreme force and deform the lock bar.

That was my guess too and still think that is the reason for the over travel stop (Not a stabilizer) being there.
Click to expand...


I dunno. For better or worse I think it was to prevent further warranty claims from guys loosening their lock bar tension to make the knife flick open faster. I don't think closing the blade using extreme force, under stress is as much of an obvious consideration as deploying the blade and using it under stress. As mentioned the new umnums only have a simple over travel stop, not a stabilizer that protects the lock bar from being crushed upwards under use.

I don't mind the appearance of the OTS. I prefer the looks of the only pivot.
 
I'd prefer it not be there, but I don't hate it. At least it's done now with a nice touch; I thought the blank overtravel stops were an eyesore.
 
I'm going against the grain here, but considering that the Umnumzaan is meant to be a sort of "Hard Use/Tactical" type of blade compared to the Sebenza I think it benefits from having it. If you've ever heard Rick Hinderer's reasoning behind creating the Lock-Bar Stabilizer, it's because under stress in turnout gloves with his adrenaline pumping he wasn't thinking about how much force he was using on a knife lock and bent it too far which rendered the knife useless. If a knife is going to be marketed as a hard use blade like this, it definitely doesn't hurt to have an over-travel stop on the handle. Of course you don't NEED it if you're an everyday user, but SOMEBODY might end up wishing it had the stop when they really need their knife to work for them. The knife was designed for those people, not for the same audience as the Sebenza. I'd say it's a benefit to have on the knife. YMMV.
 
IMightBeWrong said:
If you've ever heard Rick Hinderer's reasoning behind creating the Lock-Bar Stabilizer, it's because under stress in turnout gloves with his adrenaline pumping he wasn't thinking about how much force he was using on a knife lock and bent it too far which rendered the knife useless.
Click to expand...

Maybe opening, but closing a knife under adrenaline pumping stress? Look, Hinderer put a tactical spin on the pedestrian truth - lockbar stabilizers protect the knife from customers, and reduce warranty returns. Why? Because 'tactical' sells, whereas the truth might cause resentment as it has for more sensitive types and purists.

OP:
Do you have gorilla hands such that when you hold a glass it shatters?
Have you ever bent a lockbar before?
Do you feel compelled to modify the lockbar because you know better than the designer?

If 'no' to all these, then no you don't need it.
 
kidcongo said:
I dunno. For better or worse I think it was to prevent further warranty claims from guys loosening their lock bar tension to make the knife flick open faster. I don't think closing the blade using extreme force, under stress is as much of an obvious consideration as deploying the blade and using it under stress. As mentioned the new umnums only have a simple over travel stop, not a stabilizer that protects the lock bar from being crushed upwards under use.

I don't mind the appearance of the OTS. I prefer the looks of the only pivot.
Click to expand...

If I'm recalling correctly, there have been multiple posts from CRK confirming what you wrote. There were a bunch of people who figured they knew a lot more than Chris Reeve about knife design and manufacturing and they "corrected" his "errors" by bending the lock bar outward. A lot of these knives came back for warranty service. The OTS was intended to retard these people.
 
I must be the oddball in the room. I don't mind the OTS at all. I did find that the plain ones they first came out with to look out of place but the way they are implemented now looks good to me. I also prefer the new pivot as well. It's nice not to have proprietary hardware and tools on things meant to be taken apart and serviced. I think the original pivot looked nicer but from a practical user perspective I like new one.

CRK is always slightly evolving their lineup with rolling changes. I'd like to think that the people designing these knives know what they are doing and trust if they add something it is for a good reason.

Some people just hate change because it's different and "not as good as the original".
 
2bits said:
Maybe opening, but closing a knife under adrenaline pumping stress? Look, Hinderer put a tactical spin on the pedestrian truth - lockbar stabilizers protect the knife from customers, and reduce warranty returns. Why? Because 'tactical' sells, whereas the truth might cause resentment as it has for more sensitive types and purists.

OP:
Do you have gorilla hands such that when you hold a glass it shatters?
Have you ever bent a lockbar before?
Do you feel compelled to modify the lockbar because you know better than the designer?

If 'no' to all these, then no you don't need it.
Click to expand...

Your response is far more intense than it needs to be. I will say this: My Sebenza has MUCH more lockbar tension than my Hinderer or my Strider, both of which have the stop. That said, as an EMT I have absolutely NO complaints about a manufacturer making their knives as stupid-proof as possible. Is it an absolute necessity? Maybe not for the everyday collector/user. It doesn't look that refined, either. But the knife wasn't designed for ONLY the everyday user. For those who need their knives to hold up to as much abuse as possible, even if the abuse does come from the user, it's nice to have a feature like that. Your mindset seems to be that it's useless because it wouldn't be useful to you. My mindset is that it's only useless until an unforeseen situation arises where all of a sudden it would be really nice to have. What type of user you are could very well play a role in what features you find useful, and I assume that could be a likely reason for the bias you've displayed in this post.

And on another note, the gorilla hands comment is just silly. If you've ever experienced an adrenaline dump you will know that it's extremely easy to bend out a lock-bar. A few years back there was a news story about an old man lifting a car off of his grandson. After the incident he was surprised at the strength he had to lift the vehicle and when he tried to lift it again he was unable to lift the vehicle at all. That's exactly the type of reasoning that justifies a user-proof feature like that. It's why firearm manufacturers don't throw 2 lb triggers into firearms made for law enforcement and military and have developed ways to make a firearm safer without the use of complicated manual safeties. The whole idea here is that just because a feature isn't necessary TO YOU does not mean it isn't necessary to anyone.
 
2bits said:
Maybe opening, but closing a knife under adrenaline pumping stress? Look, Hinderer put a tactical spin on the pedestrian truth - lockbar stabilizers protect the knife from customers, and reduce warranty returns. Why? Because 'tactical' sells, whereas the truth might cause resentment as it has for more sensitive types and purists.

OP:
Do you have gorilla hands such that when you hold a glass it shatters?
Have you ever bent a lockbar before?
Do you feel compelled to modify the lockbar because you know better than the designer?

If 'no' to all these, then no you don't need it.
Click to expand...

I know I do not need it, that was not the point of the question. Just wondered why CRK felt the need to add one.
 
You can all thank me for the over travel disc:p I'm one of the idiots who bent back the lock bar on his new Umnumzaan:o

Why? Well, I had just got into collecting knives (2007ish)and CRK's for that matter. When I ordered the Umnumzaan , I had never held one before, and knew hardly ANYTHING about CRK. This particular Umnumzaan was the first generation with the lower profile lockbar.
I honestly had a difficult time disengaging the lock with my thumb. I could NOT do it one handed. I was so frustrated!(I know, I know, I had wimpy thumbs and fingers etc). I also DID NOT understand yet how these knives and their locking mechanism worked...I had no clue.
So what did I do to help "make the lock easier to open?" I pushed the lock bar out , hoping that it would ease the tension so I could "open it easier". Well I almost had a heart attack when I realized that I had totally messed the knife up! The blade rattled and would not even make contact with the lock bar...I was sick:(
Well....I had shipped it back to CRK and they fixed it(Sorry CRK):o

I think Mr Chris made a good decision to put the over travel stop on the knives to stop idiots like me, but I really dislike the "disc". I know I don't have any room to talk, but I agree with someone above who mentioned an inner type of stop. I have also seen some other makers use an enlarged pivot as the stop.


It's ok to PM me hate messages if anyone feels like they need to:p
 
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