Is the Safe Keeper legal?

Joined
Jul 9, 2000
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18
On the Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu forums, I learned about the Safe Keeper (by Cold Steel, I believe).

This is a push knife (I would guess) that sticks out forward from your hand, such that you could jab with it.

This thing looks nasty. I would guess that it isn't legal, but I thought I would ask you guys.

HG
 
I believe that Canada has made T-grip knives contraband, unless they are Arctic native sorts of Ulus. In many other places, including California where I live, the concealed carrying of a push-dagger would run afoul of laws against carrying concealed dirks or daggers or concealed weapons in general. Where "intent" is a factor in whether or not carrying the knife is criminal, that configuration is harder than some other knives to explain as a benign tool for mundane non-violent cutting chores. Basically, it violates the maxim:

Never tell a cop you're carrying a knife "for protection."

Now, if you carry it for opening boxes, and find the T-grip is ergonomic, and allows you to do other things with your knife hand without letting go of the knife, and there are traces of sticky packing tape here and there along the blade, the fact that you heard about it in a martial arts class is nobody's business. Pressing a "sword" into service as a "plowshare" is a very nice positive biblical sort thing to do, isn't it?
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If you're in California, see People vs. Hyun, where the appellate court a bayonet from an "evil assault weapon," modified for a more secure grip, carried discretely by a cable installer, was not a "concealed dirk or dagger." Note that you have to install a lot of cable to pay the lawyer's bill for going to trial, losing, and taking it up on appeal.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001


[This message has been edited by James Mattis (edited 08-05-2000).]
 
Very informative James, and I thought all knives were legal as long as the blade was not over four fingers long, or four inches, and also not an auto. You learn something new every day!
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BC... For those who fought for it, Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know... Semper Fi
 
Asking about knife legality without at LEAST mentioning your nation and in the case of the US, your state, simply isn't going to help you.

James and I know a lot about California law. On the REKAT forum, somebody asked about Texas and I responded thusly: http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum22/HTML/000483.html

In other words, we're willing to help, but we can't unless we know what area you're dealing with.

Jim
My blades page: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/blades.html

My Calif. gun rights page: http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
 
I live in Michigan.

You know, I never thought about the necessity of giving my location in re of legality issues. It's obvious to me now.

Also, I was planning of leaving it at home. I have these weird thought of someone breaking in and hurting my kids, and I could really engage in high quality self-defense with one of those.

For walking around with I have a CRKT M16-13Z. A wonderful knife that I use a lot. It's amazing how many things I need it for, now that I started carrying one. And the wonderful Carson Flipper, don't get me started singing about that!

HG
 
Ya. See, in California, it's legal open-carry only. In Texas, it SEEMS to be OK concealed or open, as long as it's 5.5" or less...although they MIGHT try and claim it's a "dagger". It ain't though.

In AZ or FL a CCW permit would cover it. In VT it's totally OK open or concealed, in New York it has to be 4" or less.

You get the picture! Sorry if I seemed frustrated but...it's the most critical variable.

So lesse now...

Michigan's main page is at: http://www.state.mi.us/

Their law library: http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/law/lawlib.html

I searched the "Michigan compliled codes": http://www.michiganlegislature.org/law/ - did a search by the word "knife", I come up with:

380.1313 - covers school carry, nothing over 3" allowed.

750.226 - This is important:

"Sec. 226. Carrying firearm or dangerous weapon with unlawful intent—Any person who, with intent to use the same unlawfully against the person of another, goes armed with a pistol or other firearm or dagger, dirk, razor, stiletto, or knife having a blade over 3 inches in length, or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument, shall be guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment in the state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than 2,500 dollars."

750.226a is switchblade law not relevant to this discussion, I mention it for other interested parties
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.

750.227 - this one sucks:

"Sec. 227. (1) A person shall not carry a dagger, dirk, stiletto, a double-edged nonfolding stabbing instrument of any length, or any other dangerous weapon, except a hunting knife adapted and carried as such, concealed on or about his or her person, or whether concealed or otherwise in any vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business or on other land possessed by the person.

(2) A person shall not carry a pistol concealed on or about his or her person, or, whether concealed or otherwise, in a vehicle operated or occupied by the person, except in his or her dwelling house, place of business, or on other land possessed by the person, without a license to carry the pistol as provided by law and if licensed, shall not carry the pistol in a place or manner inconsistent with any restrictions upon such license.

(3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a felony, punishable by imprisonment for not more than 5 years, or by a fine of not more than $2,500.00."

There's other knife-related codes but they seem to refer to either juveniles, or "criminal misuse". If you're under 18, go do some more digging starting at: http://www.michiganlegislature.org/law/ and searching with "knife" (no quotes) under "quick start".

Under "selected acts by category", there's a firearms code of 1927...I pulled it up as a huge text file, searched for "knife", "dirk", "dagger" and "bowie" separately...not a peep. See also: http://www.libofmich.lib.mi.us/law/publicacts/firearms.html

Drat. This law of 1927 has a particularly nasty history linked straight to the KKK, see also: http://www.detroitnews.com/EDITPAGE/9903/04/sweet/sweet.htm - it'd be cool if that's what you were fighting.

In conclusion, the only good news seems to be that Cold Steel makes a 2.5" Safekeeper with a single-edge blade. See also: http://www.coldsteel.com/safekeepers2.html

That one seems to be legal. It'd be fairly effective, too, if you're "adapting boxing techniques".

Damn, dude, Calif knife law is LOTS better
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. Michigan really sucks.

Just for grins, the MI Constitution is at: http://www.state.mi.us/migov/Constitution/

Sure enough:

"Sec. 6. Every person has a right to keep and bear arms for the defense of himself and the state."

Ain't THAT a joke! Jesus. You know, there was a recent major victory in Ohio whereby a lawsuit over violations of the state constitution VERY similar to this bit is kicking major arse. And given the horrific KKK links to MI gun control, damn, you could have a lot of fun with this.

You will get the level of gov't abuse that you're willing to tolerate. Go see my site; I've fought one lawsuit so far, I'm prepping right now for round two.

Jim
 
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