Is there a benefit to IKBS over caged ball bearings?

I had to google the term IKBS but the first link provided all the insight needed to understand WHY is still in use.

My understanding is that no matter how heavy or hard we use a knife, after all, the loads seen at the pivot area are going to be very small. The only load the bearing see while rolling is the pivot tension plus whatever pressure the liner lock or frame lock puts on the blade, and that's about it. This means they can be small. They also do not require to be lubed because they roll very slowly and for extremely short periods of time.

So the simpler, easier to maintain and cheaper, the better. Why do you want to cage bearings when you can just let them sit in races cut on the scales/liners directly? This also allows to have very small (in diameter) bearing assemblies. It is pretty much the width of the pivot + twice the diameter of the bearing balls. If you add inner race, outher race, lateral, caging, etc... it just gets bigger.

In my opinion.
 
CRKT still uses IKBS. I don't know of any benefits of IKBS over caged. I can certainly think of one benefit of caged over IKBS, they don't scatter everywhere when disassembled.
 
Mikel_24 said:
I had to google the term IKBS but the first link provided all the insight needed to understand WHY is still in use.

My understanding is that no matter how heavy or hard we use a knife, after all, the loads seen at the pivot area are going to be very small. The only load the bearing see while rolling is the pivot tension plus whatever pressure the liner lock or frame lock puts on the blade, and that's about it. This means they can be small. They also do not require to be lubed because they roll very slowly and for extremely short periods of time.

So the simpler, easier to maintain and cheaper, the better. Why do you want to cage bearings when you can just let them sit in races cut on the scales/liners directly? This also allows to have very small (in diameter) bearing assemblies. It is pretty much the width of the pivot + twice the diameter of the bearing balls. If you add inner race, outher race, lateral, caging, etc... it just gets bigger.

In my opinion.
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o_O Uncaged bearings go everywhere upon disassembly unless care is taken to specifically catch any of the very small bearings that will fall out.

Caged is significantly less pain in the ass to deal with. The material removed to house a caged bearing is inconsequential due to the low forces the pivot is subjected to as you surmised.

To answer the OP, I honestly don't see an advantage to ikbs and couldn't tell you why it would be chosen over a caged design other than the manufacturing processes are in place and they don't care to change.
 
vwb563 said:
CRKT still uses IKBS. I don't know of any benefits of IKBS over caged. I can certainly think of one benefit of caged over IKBS, they don't scatter everywhere when disassembled.
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Ikbs can be caged or not. There is no standard for it. But ikbs labeled knives most are caged these days.

Generally the uncaged variation allows for more bearings. More allows for more surface area contact.

Why use uncaged these days? Who knows. It's pita to build and maintain.
 
Mo2 said:
Ikbs can be caged or not. There is no standard for it. But ikbs labeled knives most are caged these days.

Generally the uncaged variation allows for more bearings. More allows for more surface area contact.

Why use uncaged these days? Who knows. It's pita to build and maintain.
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Where did you see caged IKBS ?
 
shinyedges said:
Apparently generic caged "ikbs" bearings are licensed to ikbs to crkt and lionsteel.

Interesting. Don't know what that is about. Marketing I assume.
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I wish they had different logos or something to differentiate the two. But unfortunately they dont.

I do believe a few crkt models do have ikbs bearings that are not caged. But not all.
 
Mo2 said:
I wish they had different logos or something to differentiate the two. But unfortunately they dont.

I do believe a few crkt models do have ikbs bearings that are not caged. But not all.
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Oddly, those two examples fly in the face of all the available literature on ikbs; which are described in detail to be free of a cage. Shrug.
 
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None of my ikbs marked knives have caged bearings. Not calling anyone out but stating my experience.

I got a Begg steelcraft (Reate) knife new that was short one ball on one side. No, I didn't just loose it as I was very careful. I measured the balls with a micrometer and ordered a few spares from Mcmaster.com.
 
PirateSeulb said:
I just went and watched @NickShabazz disassemble a Lionsteel with the IKBS symbol on the blade and it had caged bearings.
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All my lionsteel knives are caged bearings as well. Even my tm1 which showed marketing material with non caged bearings came with caged bearings.

And yes, often non cages bearings will be missing one bearing. It's acceptable to be missing a few and will still function without issues.
 
I have been looking at the TM1 I am not sure about the thumb disk opening and also the weight I have seen a fair bit of variance in the listed weight. I worry it might be too heavy for EDC and right now the heaviest EDC I carry is a Lil LionSpy.
 
Mo2 said:
All my lionsteel knives are caged bearings as well. Even my tm1 which showed marketing material with non caged bearings came with caged bearings.

And yes, often non cages bearings will be missing one bearing. It's acceptable to be missing a few and will still function without issues.
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My OCD does not allow for any missing balls in a bearing.
 
Glenn Goodlett said:
My OCD does not allow for any missing balls in a bearing.
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Sadly its very common from what I've seen.
PirateSeulb said:
I have been looking at the TM1 I am not sure about the thumb disk opening and also the weight I have seen a fair bit of variance in the listed weight. I worry it might be too heavy for EDC and right now the heaviest EDC I carry is a Lil LionSpy.
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Its an awesome knife. Mines in carbonfiber and the thumb opening is great. I can even finger flick it open, though more difficult than the standard way. The cf one I have is light weight and I don't even notice it in the pocket despite its size. Mostly due to the way the pocket clip hangs it in the pocket. One of my favorites for cutting up cardboard due to blade profile.
 
1. User takes knife apart to work on bearings, loses them/whatever. (S)he returns knife to company and pays the company to fix.

2. User reads about IKBS being hard to work on, so just sends the knife to the company and pays the company., ..

In a capitalistic economy, somebody always benefits.
 
Mo2 said:
Its an awesome knife. Mines in carbonfiber and the thumb opening is great. I can even finger flick it open, though more difficult than the standard way. The cf one I have is light weight and I don't even notice it in the pocket despite its size. Mostly due to the way the pocket clip hangs it in the pocket. One of my favorites for cutting up cardboard due to blade profile.
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I'm mostly interested as it is only knife I can find in Sleipner that interest me the SR-22 would except it isn't all the different from my Lil Lionspy. I do also hesitate on the thumb disc as I hate thumb studs but the discs seem to be placed in a manner that would be suitable for me.
 
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