Is there a better grind than flat?

kgriggs8

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I am not a blade expert but in my years of owning and useing knives, I have come to the idea that a flat ground and thin blade is the best type of blade for most uses. I know that some people need/want a 3/8" thick hollow ground beast but what is the point if all you are doinf is using it as a knife and not an ax or a chisel? Am I missing something? Why are flat ground blades less common than other grinds? You would think that they would be the most common blade.

I remember the first time I realized that blade thickness and grind had more to do with cutting ability than most other things. I was 12, I was cutting an apple with my Buck 112 which I always carried when my dad wanted to try it since it always had a razor sharp edge on it. He gave me his Buck knife that had a much thinner blade and I think was flat ground, it was not a 110 or 112. It cut the apple with much less force on my part even though it was not as sharp. He was amazed at how much effort it took to cut his apple and almost cut himself because of the extra force needed.

I now have a Kershaw Vapor that is kept sharp but not razor sharp and it is a great cutter at work. It is a cheap knife ($20) but it seems to work better than my Benchmade some of the time because of the thin flat ground blade.

Please fill me in on what I am missing. Why are not more knives flat ground? Is it a strength issue or a looks issue? Does it have to do with cost? I really am curious as to why a design that seems to work better isn't more popular.
 
kgriggs8 said:
Am I missing something? Why are flat ground blades less common than other grinds? You would think that they would be the most common blade.....Please fill me in on what I am missing. Why are not more knives flat ground? Is it a strength issue or a looks issue? Does it have to do with cost? I really am curious as to why a design that seems to work better isn't more popular.
Ignorance. Most people know nothing about knives. They buy what looks good, or is "cool", and manufacturers have to make what sells.

btw, I don't think there is a "best" grind, any more than I think there is a best blade shape. I like full flat grinds in general, but there are some materials that are better cut with a hollow grind. What I would really like to see is more fully convex grinds. I'm not holding my breath on that one, though...
 
Thin is more important than flat, but thin does not fit the popular conception of a hunting or field knife. A thicker hollow ground blade will cut better than a flat ground blade of the same thickness on softer material such as meat and sinew. A 3/16-inch thick flat ground knife won't cut apples or cardboard well. People don't evaluate their field knives on how they cut apples or cardboard. I judge my utility knives by how well they cut cardboard etc. I use a hollow ground hunting knife.

A thick flat ground blade does involve more grinding that a hollow or saber ground blade. You mostly find a full grind on something that uses a stamped or rolled blank.
 
Hollow ground blades are a bit easier/cheaper to produce, and give you a thin workable edge. Just what big companies want.
 
"A thicker hollow ground blade will cut better than a flat ground blade of the same thickness on softer material such as meat and sinew."

That is interesting. I don't hunt large game so I didn't know that a hollow ground blade was good for meat. I could see how a Buck knife for example would be great at separating bones of a deer. It acts as a wedge and is a very strong blade so you could use it for more than just slicing.

I guess people use their knives in different ways so what is perfect for me may not be for someone else. I need a knife to slice 90% of the time and to puncture/stab things the other 10%. I never use a knife to chisel or wedge through things. I don't need a very tough knife to do what I need a knife to do. I can see that some people need a knife that can be use for more than just cutting but I often have other tools around that I use for things that a knife is not great at.
 
There are different grinds for different uses. IMO, the thin flat grind is best at food preperation, slicing and such. A high thin hollow grind would work also. I say high because some hollow grinds are about halfway up the blade. The convex is the thickest of the three and is best suited for outdoor applications. Hunting knives, chopping and heavy cutting where a strong edge is required. The thinly ground edges can chip out under heavy cutting, especially ones with a very hard edge.
Scott
 
kgriggs8 said:
I never use a knife to chisel or wedge through things.
Actually you use a knife as a wedge every time you cut something. There are lots of different types of materials out there to be cut, though, and they present different challenges to being wedged apart.
Meat doesn't bind, and isn't hard, so a thin edge may be all that matters when cutting it. Same thing for thin materials like tape, and paper. Cardboard is stiff, and tries to maintain it's shape. Rubber is soft, but "grabs" the blade on a deep cut, and tries to conform to its shape. Wood is firmer, and when green will also try to grab the blade (this becomes evident when chopping). When dead it's harder, and stiffer, so it's more difficult to penetrate deeply.
When you get past the edge, cutting ability is all about wedging the material being cut apart at an angle that allows the edge to continue cutting with the least resistance. Different grinds are better separating different types of materials based on their rigidity and thickness, so which is best depends on what it's being used for.
Outside of the kitchen and a few things I cut at work, the grind really doesn't matter that much for most of the stuff I use a knife for, but it's still interesting to play around with different types of knives, and see how and why they perform.
 
It's all a matter of opinion. In my opinion, a full thin flat grind is as good as it gets.
 
It's hard to beat a thin flat ground blade -
one of the world's most popular knives is the SAK (Swiss Army Knife) and both official manufacturers Victorinox and Wenger produce thin flat ground blades.

However for some applications the CONVEX ground blade (like on the Opinels) can be better.....

and any blade can be improved/benefit by having a convexed edge
- ie: removing the distinct shoulder/corner between the edge bevel and the blade face -
EdgeBevel.jpg


since this removes the abrupt transition between the cutting edge and the rest of the knife.

Please take a look at these two threads:

Convexed Edge

Blade Thinness?

--
Vincent

http://UnknownVincent.cjb.net
http://UnknownVT.cjb.net
 
I have a Kabar D2 Extreme and it's not as shrp as my other knives, but it cuts (esp through tougher stuff_ with much less force than my sharper Al Mar or Camillus Dominator. It's flat ground.
 
It really depends upon the knife you're using.

Heavy work and meat cutting requires a thick blade, usually hollow ground.
Skinning is usually short and sharp, flat and sometimes hollow ground.
Boning is usually a long flexible blade to bend and give around the bone, flat ground.
Filleting needs a long flat blade as well.
Actually I think most kitchen knives are flat ground, all mine are and they're professional grade.
Fighters can be hollow or flat but usually thick too.
Some swords on the other hand go the opposite way with convex grinds and shapes.
 
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