Is there a current consensus on S35V steel?

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maximus83

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Curious if there's a current consensus among informed knife users on the place of s35v steel in the pantheon of leading stainless knife steels. For a while, it appeared that s35v was going to be a leading new super-steel, then it had a few setbacks--chipping and etc. in some performance tests--and now its place seems somewhat uncertain. I don't hear a lot of knife knuts strongly endorsing it or seeking to get leading new folders in s35v, lately. Instead, my impression is that s30v and 154cm are now the middle-of-the-road quality stainless steel options for mid to upper quality knives, while s35v is not being that widely sought after as a high-end stainless. It seems like s35v has had its reputation tarnished somewhat, and the excitement over it has worn off while folks are gravitating to other high-end stainless options, like Elmax, Vanadis, and M390.

Is that impression correct, or is s35v still a great choice, and a significant improvement in both toughness and edge retention over s30v as it was originally marketed?
 
I don't claim to be expert, but I've read a lot of threads here about steels, and it seems to me that the general consensus is that S35VN is about as good as S30V, and could be a little better if the hardness of the S35VN was brought up to 60HRC. I have read people say that 57-59HRC just isn't getting it, and it could use another point of hardness, up to 60HRC.
That's the impression that I got from reading many threads about steels here.
So, my take is that it's a very good steel, and it could be coaxed into a shade better than S30V with a harder heat treatment.
I don't see S35VN as a huge step above S30V.

I agree that these other steels you mentioned, and even some other steels, have gotten a lot of the limelight lately, and for good reason. They are really great steels.
But I don't think that means that 35VN is not good. It's just that these other steels are really great stainless steels too. But at higher cost.
 
Hattori Hanzo on S35v:

"I can tell you with no ego, this is my finest steel. If on your journey, you should encounter God, God will be cut."

Or something like that :p
 
It's best to consider that s35vn is a minor upgrade over s30v, unlike when s30v hit the market. When s30v hit the market, it was a great improvement over other steels like 154cm for example. Most users will not notice much of a difference between s35vn and s30v. I mean you really have to test those steels for a good bit before you can even notice a difference in performance. Both are great steels provided the heat treating is sound. If I was buying a knife and had the choice between s30v and s35vn, I would pick the cheaper one, because for my purposes, they function the same.
 
All I seem to read in terms of benefits is that it is easier to machine and polish, which is no benefit to me as a user, and implies a lower degree of edge retention. Seems like a step back for the user and so far have not read otherwise. Kind of a bummer, as a brand I would like to try uses it exclusively. Not willing to roll the big bucks dice as of now. Hope we get some good, honest user feedback in this thread.
 
s35vn was supposed to take care of some of the chipping issues s30v had. But in my experience, the chipping is a result of inadequate heat treating.
 
In CATRA testing by Spyderco, S35VN came up a bit shy of S30V in edge retention. It was Sal Glesser's opinion that the average user would not notice the difference.

Jim Ankerson and I both ran comparisons of S30V vs. S35VN each using his own test method. Neither of us were able to differentiate between S30V and S35VN in edge retention.

There have been some comments by various users, myself included, that S35VN seemed a bit easier to sharpen and seemed to take a bit finer edge than S30V. There is no way to verify that, but the same comment has been made by several of us who have actually tried blades made from the alloy.

Consensus opinion:
Feels about the same as S30V.
Not worth paying extra for, but certainly not an alloy to avoid.
 
I feel the same, it's about equal to S30V, I purchased the S35VN PM2 only because I found it for $112 shipped, I hadn't planned on it because to me it was too similar to the regular production, with a $35 price hike.
 
I have a few Bark River's in S35VN, and I think they are at 60-61. I have only used one of them to any extent, the Custom Highland Special. I've whittled, notched, and batoned wood, cut through many a chicken, turkey, and their bones, cut some rope as well.
I have yet to do any real sharpening to this knife. I've used black and green compound on my leather strop, ceramic rods, and a light pass on some 1200 grit sandpaper. What I find about it's edge is this.. It's not very hard to sharpen, but seems to work better if a bit toothy. Maybe if I've overdone it on the strop, the edge gets to where the edge looses some bite, it may slide on paper, but still shaves. I notice that it does not keep that very fine edge for very long. Cut up one chicken, and I notice some degration, yet it still cuts. If I don't touch it up, maybe it won't shave, but it will keep cutting through meat, rope, paper, wood, etc.. it is a convex grind, so that helps.
I have yet to feel any chipping, micro or otherwise. I am not too hard on my knives, but like I say, I have cut right through turkey bones, split the ribs, cut through the spine, etc... no damage at all.
One bias here is the thickness of the blade, and the amount of steel behind the edge. The Custom Highland Special is .195" thick at the spine, and not even an inch in height, so it's pretty thick overall. Maybe a thinner edge would perform differently? IDK
 
maximus83 said:
Is that impression correct, or is s35v still a great choice, and a significant improvement in both toughness and edge retention over s30v as it was originally marketed?
Click to expand...

It was never marketed to have better edge retention. Crucible's CARTA test rates it the same as S30V in edge retention. They do market it as being just a little tougher, and more easy to work with.
Like other's have said, I don't think you can really tell between the two in edge holding.

Here is the Crucible data page... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNGQxRsJDA0cDcfQ85LHPZouayEjUA&cad=rja

I really like S30V, and think S35V will prove to be just as good as an all around steel, and maybe even a bit tougher.
 
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Ken44 said:
It was never marketed to have better edge retention. Crucible's CARTA test rates it the same as S30V in edge retention. They do market it as being just a little tougher, and more easy to work with.
Like other's have said, I don't think you can really tell between the two in edge holding.

Here is the Crucible data page... http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...sg=AFQjCNGQxRsJDA0cDcfQ85LHPZouayEjUA&cad=rja

I really like S30V, and think S35V will prove to be just as good as an all around steel, and maybe even a bit tougher.
Click to expand...


Crucible hasn't published any primary CATRA data on S35VN. They made an estimate based on feedback, as it's states in the link you provided.

If you look at the data they provide in your link (CATRA results) you will see that they mark S35VN with an asterisk. That asterisk is explained in the quote below. It's all right there in your link. There IS NO catra test performed by crucible on S35VN. They guessed, plain and simple. This "evidence" that everyone is posting that S35VN performs as well as S30V is just a guess.




Edge Retention (CATRA Testing Relative to 440C)
Grade %
CPM S35VN 145*
CPM S30V 145
154CM 120
440C 100


The CATRA (Cutlery & Allied Trades Research Association) test
machine performs a standard cutting operation and measures the
number of silica impregnated cards which are cut. It is considered
a measure of relative wear resistance, reported in this table as
compared to a 440C standard.
*Estimate based upon market feedback
Click to expand...
 
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The ease of machining IMPLIES less abrasion resistance, but that is not what I have heard about regarding S35VN or CTS-XHP in practice. I did hear from one kitchen knife guy who handles and sharpens a LOT of high end knives that S35VN is the best stainless that he as come across so far as far as performance and that includes comparing it to a lot of the high end Japanese knives. I plan to try the stuff out and I'm sure not going to leave it as 58. IMO, if a steel cannot be left at 60 even for a "hard use" knife, you should probably look for another type of steel.
 
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