Is There A Doctor In The House?

Jack Black

Jack Black

Seize the Lambsfoot! Seize the Day!
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I had a few good finds in the market today, though they ended up costing me a fair bit! :eek: Inevitably, it is the ugliest and least expensive knife which I am finding most intriguing! :D

Here are some poor pictures of it.





I had thought it was something homemade at first, a school boy’s project perhaps (making a knife was a common school metalwork assignment when I was a kid), or some sort of trade knife (ie a knife used as part of one’s work, not the other sort of trade knife). Well I reckon it is a trade knife – of sorts :eek:

There were no markings on the tang, which along with the basic construction, was why I thought it might have been homemade, but after a brief wipe-down, I noticed some feint lettering on the back of the tang.



Now that’s not a cutler’s mark, it’s a mark seen on surgical and medical knives hereabouts. This is a pretty hefty and large scalpel though! It looks to me like it belongs more in a mortuary than a hospital, but then my knowledge of old medical knives is limited – though I have a couple of nice ones.

Since we have experts on just about everything here, I wondered: Do we have a doctor in the house? (I always wanted to say that! :D) And if so, does this knife ring any bells?

Medical qualifications are not needed for you to advance an opinion ;)

Thanks for your help

Jack
 
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By 'eck Mister 'erriot.
Looks lahk thi've got thi sen
Vitnery knife 'o soom sort. Fer pokin' into yowies bellies when thiv got t'bloat or summat.
Now gerrout t'road Ah've got sackfull o kittens t chook in't river.
 
Thanks for the reply Meako :D :thumbup:

Here's some info about Charles F Thackray Ltd from

http://www.sochealth.co.uk/2013/09/08/chas-f-thackray-ltd-suppliers-surgeons/

The first instruments Thackray sold were supplied by Selby of London in 1908. This side of the business grew so rapidly that two years later he set up an instrument repairs department in a converted stable at the back of the pharmacy. Compared to prescription fees, the income from instrument repairs was in a different league altogether.

...

By the outbreak of the First World War, turnover was about six times that of the first financial year. Thackray’s was employing 25 people, including eight instrument makers and three full-time representatives. Salesmen visited customers over a wide area, supplying wholesale pharmaceuticals not only to hospitals and nursing homes but also to general practitioners serving rural areas. Where chemist shops were few and far between, doctors did much of their own dispensing and therefore carried stocks of common medicines with them.

...

By the end of the war in 1918, Thackray’s employed fourteen instrument makers, out of a total workforce that had risen to 32. The surgical equipment supply side of the business prospered, largely owing to the increase in surgery in Leeds and Thackray’s realization that there was a limit to the amount of wholesale drug business that could be obtained from doctors.

...

It is fair to say that Thackray’s was rated as one of the best employers in the Leeds area, an essential element in the production of high-quality instruments. (Even during the Depression years of high unem*ployment, Thackray’s was able to offer a 58 3/4 hour working week for engineers, compared to the average 513/4.6) It is equally fair to say that the staff were exceptionally loyal and formed a closely-knit team who were willing to put themselves out on their employer’s behalf when necessary.

...

Many instruments were made to surgeons’ own specifications—witness the number named after their inventor in any Thackray catalogue index. The close co-operation between surgeon and manufacturer shows up in the firm’s correspondence, such as this letter from Mr Cockcroft-Barker, MB, ChB, writing to Mercer Gray in 1938 about a dilator: The true secret of the instrument,’ which is not easy to decipher owing to Mr Cockcroft-Barker’s handwriting, ‘is the curve and also the length of the dilating portion.’ He suggests to Mercer Gray in a post script that this ‘might be a good thing to keep up your own sleeve’.7

Surgeons could come to Park Street to buy their instruments; they could also get to know of new products at medical exhibitions. Thackray’s claims to have been first in its field to run an exhibition in conjunction with a surgeons’ meeting—a practice that is widespread nowadays with clear advantages to both parties.

The pre-war instrument catalogue lists about 2500 different items (at least twenty of which were to Moynihan’s design). Park Street, where all design and the majority of manufacture took place, had become totally inadequate.

...

One of the craftsmen who worked from surgeons’ backs-of-envelopes sketches for instruments turned his skill to providing life-saving equipment to servicemen who were to be dropped by parachute across the Channel. Folding scissors, saws and wire cutters were fitted into the heels of boots, compasses were hidden in tunic buttons and Gigli saws (a flexible saw rather like a cheese-cutter) were concealed in coat collars.
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Maybe I'll take it up to the Thackray Medical Museum in Leeds, haven't been up there for about 10 years.
 
Taking it to the Museum sounds like right way to proceed, Jack.
Like Meako, I can think of a few odd and evil things your knife may have been designed for, but the truth may well lie in that historical Bastion!
 
waynorth said:
Taking it to the Museum sounds like right way to proceed, Jack.
Like Meako, I can think of a few odd and evil things your knife may have been designed for, but the truth may well lie in that historical Bastion!
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I just hope that they don't chastise me for sharpening it :eek: Mind you, the steel is not like most of the old steel I come across, it's taking some work to get it properly sharp. Very thick bar of steel, I wouldn't fancy being operated on with it! :eek: I suppose if Thackray's did a lot of bespoke work, it could have been designed for any number of purposes. Maybe one of the blokes in the workshop had a lad who was in the Boy Scouts, or wanted something for guard-duty when he was in the Home Guard! :D

kamagong said:
Jack the Ripper's knife?
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The thought had crossed my mind! :eek:
 
At a recent Estate auction in Seattle there were three vintage Grieshaber surgical knives, etc. 9.75" to 11" in length. I was suprised by how large they were, as the only scalples I have personal experience with are modern replacable blade things with blades less than 1". Still, I reasoned that if I find a 4" blade good for hunting and processing game it only makes sense that that would be good in a medical setting.

I wish they hadn't got too expensive for me, but that's way outside my normal collection comfort zone.

Interesting knife, Jack. Very utilitarian.
 
jc57 said:
Could be a Stout Cartilage Knife used in post-mortem dissections.

g1.jpg


g2.jpg


If you Google for images of "Cartilage knife" they pretty much look just like that one in shape.
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Thank you John, that's good info, much appreciated :thumbup:

Blimey, that's a grim-sounding list isn't it? :eek:

Here's a Cartilage Knife from the Civil War:

DSC00683.JPG


eisman said:
At a recent Estate auction in Seattle there were three vintage Grieshaber surgical knives, etc. 9.75" to 11" in length. I was suprised by how large they were, as the only scalples I have personal experience with are modern replacable blade things with blades less than 1". Still, I reasoned that if I find a 4" blade good for hunting and processing game it only makes sense that that would be good in a medical setting.

I wish they hadn't got too expensive for me, but that's way outside my normal collection comfort zone.

Interesting knife, Jack. Very utilitarian.
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Thanks my friend, very interesting, I guess someone collects just about everything. I picked up a pair of antique dental pliers one time, figured my dentist might like them - He looked at me with absolute horror, said he liked to leave his job behind in the evenings! :D
 
Yep, the more Googling I do, the more it would appear to be a chondrotome, or cartilage knife, defined as "A very stiff scalpel-shaped knife used in cutting cartilage".

They are/were used in amputations and port-mortem dissections, in both humans and animals. Cartilage is pretty tough material so that would explain the need for it to be so thick. Some of the blade images I found make it almost resemble the cotton sampler blade.

You can still find knives that look almost identical to the one you posted, down to the wooden handles, that are currently manufactured for sale for that purpose.

Here's one: http://www.saharantrading.co.uk/sto...-wooden-handle-blade-2-75-70mm/prod_4337.html

Hope it's OK to link to a site that sells surgical instruments...

Edit - also, Googling for "Autopsy knife" turns up a number of similar tools. So I'm guessing that's certainly a traditional use for knives. Probably the earliest use of a cutting tool by humans was for the processing of meat, so dissection of animal bodies is without doubt the most traditional of knife functions. :)
 
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Thanks for all your help John, great detective work :thumbup:
 
Fascinating thread, this. Thanks for sharing with us again, Jack. It's amazing, the things you seem to dig up!
 
JB in SC said:
My nephew is attending medical school. I'll be sure to show him this thread ;)
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Hope he finds it of interest Jerry. My eldest daughter is a doctor :)

Parke1 said:
Fascinating thread, this. Thanks for sharing with us again, Jack. It's amazing, the things you seem to dig up!
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Thanks Dan, glad you found it of interest, certainly a strange find :thumbup: Not sure how I feel about the patina on this one :eek:
 
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