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Is there a Spyderco model which looks a lot like the BM 806??
- Thread starter MTHall720
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Tsujigiri
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The designer of the BM AFCK, Chris Caracci, used the Spyderco Police as inspiration for his design. He wanted something with more grip than the Police's SS handles, and the G-10 Police wasn't around then. Now that it is, I guess that would be pretty close.
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I kept thinking that Navy k631 I have is similar to AFCK. It's a 'straighter' than Military (less belly & angled down) but not an Endura copy.
Only later found out it might be derived from Police.
So perhaps it's the Police, although I think new Endura is more like it.
Only later found out it might be derived from Police.
So perhaps it's the Police, although I think new Endura is more like it.
Tsujigiri
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They pretty much only make knockoffs. I've heard that Sanrenmu and Enlan have better quality.
Regardless of what knife inspired the AFCK, you wont be able to convince me there's another Spyderco more similar than the Renegade. Here are a few pictures FYI.
Personally, I see no resemblance between the original Police and the original AFCK. Chris may have used it (the Police) as a very basic starting point, and then drastically changed and improved it.
Also, I don't know whhich came first, the Renegade, or the AFCK, but I feel there's enough similarity to declair someone did some design theft. -But I don't know the story on all that, so don't hold me to tightly to those words.
-Just read the Renegade was introduced in 1994. Not sure on the AFCK, but I think it was the mid/late 90s. My thought (which my be wrong) is that the AFCK was inspired by the Renegade and not the police. However, I don't disbelieve the designer made mention of the Police as his inspirartion.
From what I recall hearing, originally the Renegade was to be a liner-lock, but something occured durring production and they switched to a back-lock. If you look at some Renegades, you'll notice there's extra g10 on the back scale in the finger choil area. I believe this was for the liner-lock. At some point, once they knew they would be lock-backs, they removed that extra g10 and made the two scales flush. -In the examples pictured you can see they have that extra bit to g10. If I recall correct, the one I had didn't have that.
The Renegade may be a better knife for aggressive use, even though the tip is so fine, but it is no where near as robust as any of the AFCKs. If I recall correct the Renegade was linerless as well. -Regardless, it's a fine knife and I'd love to own one. With that tip, they should have sent a note with them like they do now with the Civilian.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
Here's a picture showing the variations in the choil. With the choil flush on both scales it offers better grip security than the 800 or 806, also partly due to a more aggresive texture on the g10. They don't get much pointier than these, and the hollow gring would cut like a laser. -But not much of a work knife like the 806 could be. -"That's all I have to say about that..."
Personally, I see no resemblance between the original Police and the original AFCK. Chris may have used it (the Police) as a very basic starting point, and then drastically changed and improved it.
Also, I don't know whhich came first, the Renegade, or the AFCK, but I feel there's enough similarity to declair someone did some design theft. -But I don't know the story on all that, so don't hold me to tightly to those words.
-Just read the Renegade was introduced in 1994. Not sure on the AFCK, but I think it was the mid/late 90s. My thought (which my be wrong) is that the AFCK was inspired by the Renegade and not the police. However, I don't disbelieve the designer made mention of the Police as his inspirartion.
From what I recall hearing, originally the Renegade was to be a liner-lock, but something occured durring production and they switched to a back-lock. If you look at some Renegades, you'll notice there's extra g10 on the back scale in the finger choil area. I believe this was for the liner-lock. At some point, once they knew they would be lock-backs, they removed that extra g10 and made the two scales flush. -In the examples pictured you can see they have that extra bit to g10. If I recall correct, the one I had didn't have that.
The Renegade may be a better knife for aggressive use, even though the tip is so fine, but it is no where near as robust as any of the AFCKs. If I recall correct the Renegade was linerless as well. -Regardless, it's a fine knife and I'd love to own one. With that tip, they should have sent a note with them like they do now with the Civilian.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
Here's a picture showing the variations in the choil. With the choil flush on both scales it offers better grip security than the 800 or 806, also partly due to a more aggresive texture on the g10. They don't get much pointier than these, and the hollow gring would cut like a laser. -But not much of a work knife like the 806 could be. -"That's all I have to say about that..."
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Yes, Enlan & Sanrenmu are better (less knockoff, tighter QC). Having said that, my two Navy that came are good.
By the way, the new one has no swedge, and retaining same blade shape. To me, looks like slim down Military due to straight spine.
The Renegade mentioned really is more similar to AFCK (no hump).
By the way, the new one has no swedge, and retaining same blade shape. To me, looks like slim down Military due to straight spine.
The Renegade mentioned really is more similar to AFCK (no hump).
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The Police 3 is an updated Police with most of the best features of the AFCK. The Police 3 & the AFCK are my two favorite folders so I'm all over the subject. I have a Renegade too.
There's a thread on the AFCK's design in Caracci's old Urban Jungle sub-forum. He said: "As to the design, well you take a police model change the lock to something more tactical make the blade a flat grind, cut out the finger groove on the liner lock and add an index finger groove. Put on G10 scales for better grip and thats it. The best thing about the police model was the angle of the blade in relation to the handle. In reference to what changes were not made on the AFCK that I wanted, the outside bevels on the scales were to be sharper so that one would have the feel of a thinner knife. Everything else was about right."
The AFCK was just about perfect for me & I couldn't think of any improvements I wanted aside from fantasy steels & handle materials. I didn't notice the Police 3 for a while, assuming it was just a flat-groundG10 Police model. One day I noticed that the blade was now 4.25 inches. Caught my attention. Then I noticed that the handle had a big index finger cutout & a finger choil for choking up (the AFCK has a portion on the handle that sorta works like a choil). The blade was angled forward a bit too, & had a swedge down the whole backside. More belly too. It seemed like they added all the best features of the AFCK to the Police model & stretched it a quarter inch. I snapped one up quick & it bumped the AFCK for #1 spot in my pocket. It's thinner from side to side & the hump over the hole provides more of a thumb ramp. Definitely worth checking out if you like the AFCK.
There's a thread on the AFCK's design in Caracci's old Urban Jungle sub-forum. He said: "As to the design, well you take a police model change the lock to something more tactical make the blade a flat grind, cut out the finger groove on the liner lock and add an index finger groove. Put on G10 scales for better grip and thats it. The best thing about the police model was the angle of the blade in relation to the handle. In reference to what changes were not made on the AFCK that I wanted, the outside bevels on the scales were to be sharper so that one would have the feel of a thinner knife. Everything else was about right."
The AFCK was just about perfect for me & I couldn't think of any improvements I wanted aside from fantasy steels & handle materials. I didn't notice the Police 3 for a while, assuming it was just a flat-groundG10 Police model. One day I noticed that the blade was now 4.25 inches. Caught my attention. Then I noticed that the handle had a big index finger cutout & a finger choil for choking up (the AFCK has a portion on the handle that sorta works like a choil). The blade was angled forward a bit too, & had a swedge down the whole backside. More belly too. It seemed like they added all the best features of the AFCK to the Police model & stretched it a quarter inch. I snapped one up quick & it bumped the AFCK for #1 spot in my pocket. It's thinner from side to side & the hump over the hole provides more of a thumb ramp. Definitely worth checking out if you like the AFCK.
I agree the Police-3 is a major step up from the originsl, but I don't think it offers the grip security of the AFCK or Renegade as the choil isn't as deep. Still, you'd be hard pressed to find a easier to carry knife with that blade length that the P3 offers. Not to knock it, but the one I had was quite stiff to open as well, but that mite aid in the lock security. -Still, it's a thin, long, relitively light knife, with a thin edge. I wish they included the swege on the P3 too. It is a nice design in my opinion.
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I think it's actually easier to open because the Spyderhole is easier to hit with my thumb due to the hump. The lock spring gives a bit more resistance to openings than the old or newer axis lock AFCKs but mine's far from stiff. I just handled both & the handles are identical in length. The Police 3 is roughly 1/3 thinner side to side than my new AFCK. Its Saturday night & I'm up on Bladeforums handling my folders to compare minutae. Do we know how to party or what?
BTW, if you like the handles on these folders, you'll love the new CS Voyagers too. Same handle shape with a pinkie hook. I have two so far & I'm loving them. No Spyderhole, though.
BTW, if you like the handles on these folders, you'll love the new CS Voyagers too. Same handle shape with a pinkie hook. I have two so far & I'm loving them. No Spyderhole, though.
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Regardless of what knife inspired the AFCK, you wont be able to convince me there's another Spyderco more similar than the Renegade. Here are a few pictures FYI.
Personally, I see no resemblance between the original Police and the original AFCK. Chris may have used it (the Police) as a very basic starting point, and then drastically changed and improved it.
Also, I don't know whhich came first, the Renegade, or the AFCK, but I feel there's enough similarity to declair someone did some design theft. -But I don't know the story on all that, so don't hold me to tightly to those words.
-Just read the Renegade was introduced in 1994. Not sure on the AFCK, but I think it was the mid/late 90s. My thought (which my be wrong) is that the AFCK was inspired by the Renegade and not the police. However, I don't disbelieve the designer made mention of the Police as his inspirartion.
From what I recall hearing, originally the Renegade was to be a liner-lock, but something occured durring production and they switched to a back-lock. If you look at some Renegades, you'll notice there's extra g10 on the back scale in the finger choil area. I believe this was for the liner-lock. At some point, once they knew they would be lock-backs, they removed that extra g10 and made the two scales flush. -In the examples pictured you can see they have that extra bit to g10. If I recall correct, the one I had didn't have that.
The Renegade may be a better knife for aggressive use, even though the tip is so fine, but it is no where near as robust as any of the AFCKs. If I recall correct the Renegade was linerless as well. -Regardless, it's a fine knife and I'd love to own one. With that tip, they should have sent a note with them like they do now with the Civilian.
Please correct me if I'm wrong about any of this.
Here's a picture showing the variations in the choil. With the choil flush on both scales it offers better grip security than the 800 or 806, also partly due to a more aggresive texture on the g10. They don't get much pointier than these, and the hollow gring would cut like a laser. -But not much of a work knife like the 806 could be. -"That's all I have to say about that..."
Seeing those pics really helped me a lot. The main reason I am interested is because to be honest I love the looks of the AFCK but I simply don't have it in the budget to get one of them in excellent condition so am looking for a less expensive alternative.
I like the looks of the Renegade but when I looked for one I didn't see any listed right now. After seeing pics of the BM Full size PIKA I am concerned that the scales/handle might have a super light weight "plastic feel" to them, although I like the material in the Griptilian. I saw only one Ascent on eBay but I think you are right about the Renegade coming the closest.
No idea what a very good condition one of those full size would run though. I have had two Spydies in the past but could never get the hang of opening fast with one hand without resorting to the Spydie drop method which I simply don't like (long story).
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I will look at some pics of the Police 3 and check it out on You Tube. About 8 years ago I had an older Police. What I didn't like about it then was how hard it was for me to be to do a quick one handed opening and the grip was very slippery since no G10 option then.