Is there any more FECKLESS blade design...

than a Hawkbill?

Aside from rescue work, cutting people out of seatbelts, I can't see any practical purpose for this blade shape.

Of course, there are people who have told me it's a great combat design, really?
I think it's just for wannabee slashers that want to be as scary as Freddie Krugger. I've even asked some makers that have made this shaped blade and they can't figure what it's good for?
 
Phil, it depends on your work, farmers would see it as a real worker cutting hay bales' string, I used the Spyderco Merlin on boxes, straps, cutting through plastic wraps.
The design isn't made for cutting things that lay flat on a cutting board that is for sure, but when you don't want to have the material you are cutting to run off the blade end the curve of a hawkbill comes in pretty handy.
This Mike Irie Sport #700 works well for me at work....

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G2

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"The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions!"
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I assume the term hawkbill as used here refers to the extreme examples of this design, such as the Spyderco Citizen (do I have the name right?).

I think everyone intuits this design as a narrow purpose anti-human knife.
It has one cut I can see, the draw cut, and it would work without much training and awareness on the part of the wielder; requiring only that the two involved parties each extend a body part into the melee and then withdraw it.
I think a cat's claw works on the same principle.

One could not reasonably open this knife in the workplace and use it to open boxes.
My great granny could figure out the use of this knife and she would not approve.

I see it as a good self-defense knife for a wife, mother or daughter who otherwise has no interest in learning self-defense.
In a quite similar mind-set, I give my wife a Spyderco Mariner, or Rescuer to put in her pocket whenever she travels out of town.
It serves much the same purpose without the horrifically disturbing appearance.

"Feckless".
What an interesting word.
I have not heard or seen it used in perhaps ten years.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom
If one takes care of the means, the end will take care of itself.
 
PhilL

PhilL

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Ken Cox:
I assume the term hawkbill as used here refers to the extreme examples of this design
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Ken. yes I'm talking about the extreme examples. Sorry, but I can't see slashing or backcuts as very effective self deffense moves.
Gary, I don't see Mike's design as extreme, in fact it doesn't look that much off from being a wharncliff which I think is a very pratical design for everyday use.

I'm not saying there is no use for this style blade, just that this has the most limited use of any design I can think of. I'm pretty sure the people buying custom hawkbills aren't farmers cuttting open bales of hay.
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Phil,

I carried a Spyderco Merlin for 2 years as my primary utility blade. The hawkbill design is much handier than it looks. Like mentioned earlier in this thread, it is great for getting under things that are held tight against a surface, such as packaging straps and such. They are also great for opening boxes and other fine tip work. Also, if using it to cut open thick materials such as heavy cardboard, no wrist strength is required as you are just pulling towards yourself. As far as utility work is concerned, I think a hawkbill is the equal to any blade shape, if not better. Just my opinion
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Louis Buccellato
http://www.themartialway.com
Knives, Weapons and equipment. Best prices anywhere.
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"only the paranoid will survive"
 
Oh no Phil, not Farmers with customs,except for the ones that they buy from Vallotton, he says that he sells the most to farmers in the area! But just the hawkbill shape. As to the image of Mike's Sport #700, it has almost a wharncliff type blade but the hook really is more pronounced than it looks and cuts great!

And That Spyderco Civilian, nasty nasty knife! They sell it with the stipulation that this isn't an everyday working knife, but a devastating pull cutting weapon, I owned one and have since sold it, nasty sharp weapon!!! but pretty cool looking too!
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G2
 
I used my Kershaw Talon (G10 scales) so much for opening packages that I put it in the top drawer of my desk at home. Then I picked up another one, used, off the Exchange Forum, for my desk drawer at the office. I've found nothing more precise for scoring cardboard or needling up under tape or cord for an easy pull-cut. It's one of the most useful blade designs I've discovered.

--W.

By the way, is "feck" the name of that small notch cut in the choil area of a blade? Always wondered what that was called. If it's the feck, I like feckless designs, also.
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...The,"Civilian," was meant for the military and police units, however where there is a demand, there is also a supply.The price is alittle steep, but it is a good seller in the everyday market, try to guess why?....self defence is what I think, but in my opinion, its too severe. I don't think that all buyers are Thinking of the aftermath of a defence situation, when purchasing. Imagine your lawyer trying to defend you in court!...Ironhorse...
 
feck*less (adjective)
[Scottish, from feck effect, majority, from Middle English (Scottish) fek, alteration of Middle English effect]
First appeared circa 1585
1 : WEAK, INEFFECTIVE
2 : WORTHLESS, IRRESPONSIBLE
-- feck*less*ly (adverb)
-- feck*less*ness (noun)

Para's not the only one with a TheeSauRus
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Given the arc your hand describes in cutting, the curve of a bellied blade is in constant contact with what you're cutting. But the curve of a hawksbill is in constantly increasing contact.

The hawksbill is a modern version of the oldest agricultural blade there is: the sickle. It is still the best for that sort of work, pulling across a free-standing object to be cut. This makes it perfect for grain, or plants in a garden, or trimming vines.

It is also excellent as a carpet knife, for opening or cutting apart cartons, or slashing through packaging tape or twine.

I used to carry my Kershaw Talon in the woods, for cutting away the thorns growing out over the trail, or vines catching my feet. I replaced it with the Vaquero Grande for the greater length, but the VG's extreme recurve is a combination hawksbill/belly.

 
Phil, I agree. I had the finest hawkbill ever made, a MT Kestrel. Beautiful craftsmanship, sharp blade--completely worthless. I sent it back to Josh when another pigeon landed. I disagree about rescue work; I saw a Spydie with a round tip---curve down from the swedge to a straight wharncliffe edge, it's proper name escapes me--and that knife looked good for EMT work. But it was not so extreme as to negate its use in traditional areas.--OKG
 
I didn't follow Phil's comment:
"Sorry, but I can't see slashing or backcuts as very effective self defense moves."

When I wrote draw cut, I meant what several others referred to as a pull cut.
I think the pull cut would work well for someone who does not normally think in terms of self-defense; and, of course, it would work even better for someone who does.

As a man, I would not like to have the plaintiff's attorney hold up a Spyderco Civilian belonging to me and say, "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, please ask yourselves what kind of person would carry such a vicious weapon and why."
A woman might fare better.

Some years ago I had Jon Tank make a combat shotgun for me.
I told him I wanted it to look good in front of a jury.
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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom
If one takes care of the means, the end will take care of itself.
 
Phil,
This is funny
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:
>>>Of course, there are people who have told me it's a great combat design, really?
I think it's just for wannabee slashers that want to be as scary as Freddie Krugger. I've even asked some makers that have made this shaped blade and they can't figure what it's good for?<<
I have about 30 customers I have to pass this along to!! Thanks
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ROLMFAO!!
Neil



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Neil, I'm not trying to put you or any maker that makes this style knife down, just really questioning the motives of the people that order them?
With all the negative reactions that knives get, why do some people feel the need to have the most sinister looking blade they can find?
One of my Dad's knives was a hawkbill, I know he used it a lot, and he wasn't a slasher. I'm pretty sure it was the first knife I cut myself with?
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Nobody has answered my original question yet?
 
Hmmmm... the original question... what was that? Ummm... what is it good for? Gardening, I do believe. Plain and simple. The only hawksbill blades that I ever saw before here on the forum were the old folding h-blades, like you post above. There were all carried by farmers, although I have also heard once or twice of a farmer using one for slashing someone. IIRC, he wasn't much of a farmer after that. The only other place I have seen them is in vineyards, used for harvesting the grape bunches.

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iktomi
 
That blade design was common on what we used to call linoleum knives. But we used to use them for all kinds of utility work. Before razor blade knives were common, they were used to cut roofing paper and shingles. And of course, like everyone else sez they are wicked on boxes, straps, carpet, binder twine, feed sacks, wall paper, drywall etc. 'Bout anything you want to cut. I think you lost me Phil. They are great utility blades. Thus I see this as a somewhat feckless thread.
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Hoodoo

I get some pleasure from finding a relentlessly peaceful use for a combative looking knife.
JKM
 
Phil,
No problem, I DID find the Freddy Kruger thing funny. Hawkbills or Hawksbills have a following just like Balisongs, auto's etc. I can assure you that as a maker of this style knife, they ARE popular!!
I wouldn't consider my smaller model to be sinister looking and I try to make them as friendly looking as possible using colorful handle materials and colored spacers. People that own them are very happy with their performance as a utility knife.
My largest version only has a 3.5" blade but I suppose it could be considered sinister looking. Most of the sales of this model have been to Law Enforcement both here in the states and in Canada.
As far as a Hawkbills self defense capabilities..... I as well as MANY others, would match it inch for inch, ounce for ounce with ANY other knife of the same size. Most of my Hawkbill customers are already carrying Spyderco Civilians or other Hawkbill folders but prefer the strength and fast deployment of a fixed blade.
With much customer input my Hawkbill has sort of evolved into a "system" including special sheaths. I've made several special sheaths to be worn inside a dress jacket, breast pocket. The knife is held upside down for quick cross draw access. Several other carry options have been designed to facilitate SAFE, fast deployment of the curved blade. As you can imagine standard IWB carry is not recommended
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I carry one in a neck sheath almost on a daily basis. I also carry a more politically correct folder for public use. I think responsible ownership of any knife is important especially for the more sinister looking ones.
Neil



------------------
Talonite......Stellite
Knives in STOCK!! I just updated my website, PLEASE take a look :)


blackwoodknives.com
 
.....I don't know of any,"FECKLESS," knives, they are after all designed to cut something right? However, I have run across alot of,"FECKLESS," people in my time, who I thought were a waste of paper their birth certificates were printed on. Ripping is the term your looking for,not slashing, slashing is done with an upturned pointed blade, Ripping is done with a Hawkbill blade....Ironhorse....
 
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