Is this a "gravity knife" in NYC?

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PV29

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Feb 13, 2007
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Lone Wolf just came out with a gentlemen's folder called the Paul Executive, which has a 2.5 inch blade. See picture. Would this be considered a "gravity knife" or even a switchblade because of the Axial Lock, which locks the blade in both open and closed position? Note, there is NO spring assist, so you release the blade by pressing the button, let it fall by gravity, roll the wrist into the closed position.

knife-paul-lm23415-550.jpg
 
i think an argument could be made either way.

my gut feeling is no, as a separate step aside from centrifugal force is required.

but, my Eickhorn paratrooper 'traditional' gravity knife requires you to push a lever to get the blade to slide out.
 
This knife works as a true gravity knife in that you have to "release" the blade allowing it to open via gravity or centrifugal force. As Metis noted the true paratrooper gravity knives ( and ones like it) where the knives the law was intended to ban when passed. In today's enforcement policy the fact that the blade does not flick open until you press a release button may make some officers feel that it is not a gravity knife, however I feel it is one ( a real one infact)....The magic word in the NY law was "released" which for a long time after the law was passed was understood to mean that the blade had to be released before gravity or centifugal force was used to open the knife. The releasing of the blade was understood to be required by some separte action, but this was not clearly written in the law. This is what lawyers live for you know.
 
Metis said:
i think an argument could be made either way.

my gut feeling is no, as a separate step aside from centrifugal force is required.

but, my Eickhorn paratrooper 'traditional' gravity knife requires you to push a lever to get the blade to slide out.
Click to expand...

I think you an Tom make very valid points. My doubt came about because Section 265.00 (5) reads:

5. "Gravity knife" means any knife which has a blade which is released
from the handle or sheath thereof by the force of gravity or the
application of centrifugal force which, when released, is locked in
place by means of a button, spring, lever or other device.
Click to expand...

A literal reading of this means that merely applying gravity or centrifugal force should release the blade from the handle. With this knife, you could flick it and shake for a month of Sundays and nothing would happen. So in a strange twist of irony, the distorted application of the original law by NYPD and Bloomberg has made many knives "illegal" which were never intended to be illegal. Yet it has also made the knife originally intended to be outlawed, and those which operate in a similar fashion, "legal" if judged by the "flick" test employed now.

Too bad, because I think this knife is a great non-threatening and classy folder and very safe to carry.
 
Yes, the "Paul Knife" (originally from Gerber) is considered a gravity knife in many areas.

I would not carry it in NYC.
 
So any Benchmade knife with an Axis Lock is a gravity knife because it can be opened (and closed) by holding the lock bar back and flipping the blade out?
 
sad, but yeah, pretty much. wrong person, wrong day, it's a gravity knife.
 
omg.

as an LEO i'm appalled. i'll be the first to say that's complete b.s..

have there been any upstate cases, or is it just NYC cracking down? i see open carry of fixed blades every day and nothing on the blotters.

screw'em. boycott the NYC knife show. i mean the majority of knives there are gravity knives right? they could arrest the makers for transporting them over state lines......
 
It really has to do with the wording of the law. CA put in a exemption clause for the very purpose of insuring that Liner Locking knives could not be called gravity knives. But that does not stop me for working several cases every month over this very issue.

NYs wording does seem to make any axis lock a gravity knife. Time to fight to put a exemption clause in. If it can be done in the Socialist Republic of Commiefornia then surely it can be done in NY.
 
Brian Jones said:
Check this disturbing article out...

State Court Says LinerLocks are Gravity Knives:

http://www.blademag.com/article/LinerLocks/
Click to expand...
Great article; thanks for sharing. Just underscores the need for complete concealment of any knife that is carried, not only in NYC but anywhere. I noticed that the people who were arrested and charged were young men. Perhaps it is a macho thing, but some guys just need to expose the fact that they are "carrying". It serves no useful purpose at all and has the potential to get the carrier in a lot of trouble. Secret Service agents do it the right way: low profile and total concealment of their weapons. Carry your knife (or other weapon) out of sight, dress decently and keep a low profile in public. If these young men removed the clips from their knives and carried them in the strong-side trouser pocket like I do, the arrests never would have happened! I would rather avoid a problem altogether than have to pay a lot of money to a lawyer to argue technicalities in court, stand an excellent chance of losing anyway and end up burdened with a criminal record.
 
agreed. there are ways not to get arrested.

but, there's no reason that a law abiding citizen should have to conceal a legitimate tool to that extent.

i think the current policy is unreasonable and i don't see how NYC feels that this type of harassment is warranted.

while i don't know any Secret Service agents, i fight with two FBI agents. they both have knife/light clips showing most of the time.
 
The fact is, centrifugal force has nothing to do with flicking open a linerlock. It has to do with inertia, and the change from stopped to moving. Centrifugal force is different entirely, and could correctly be described as the opposite of gravity.

The legal system in NYC is corrupt.

The legal system in NYC is corrupt.
Their claim is that:

X = Gravity knife.

AND

Anything that is not X = Gravity knife.

Time for someone in New York state with $$$ for lawyers to stand up for what's the right thing.

And then prosecute the people who have been doing this to innocent citizens.
 
Metis said:
agreed. there are ways not to get arrested.

but, there's no reason that a law abiding citizen should have to conceal a legitimate tool to that extent.

i think the current policy is unreasonable and i don't see how NYC feels that this type of harassment is warranted.

while i don't know any Secret Service agents, i fight with two FBI agents. they both have knife/light clips showing most of the time.
Click to expand...

Damn, I live on Long Island, about 50 mile east of NYC, and this stuff scares me. I don't visit NYC often anymore, and I don't carry when I do. Here at home, I carry a small folder clipped to my strong-side pants pocket everyday. Nothing crazy, just a BM 707, Al Mar Falcon, or Spyderco Delica. The clips are black and usually blend in with my jeans or suit pants. But I'm seriously considering removing all my clips to prevent an overeager LEO who is specifically looking for clips from stopping me.

Question: If I put a lanyard on my knives and carry with the ball/end of the lanyard showing (to keep the knife from jangling in my pocket), am I carrying a knife in open view or unconcealed? Can I be stopped for showing the end of a lanyard? What do you think?
 
PV29, there are many former NYC officers on the Nassau and Suffork forces now, and they have been trained by the NYCPD to interpert STATE law as to include all the knives you listed as gravity knives. I would say unexposed and in your pocket is the way to go. The "exposed" law is only in the NYC Admin Code, but an officer could easily say he saw the landyard and past experience has taught him that is a common pocket knife attachment and he therefore has a valid right to examine the knife to see if it is legal....I live in Nassau now myself, and a few months back saw a teenage arrested at the front entrance of the Broadway Mall on rt 107 in Hicksville solely because a plain cloths officer could flick open his knife which was clipped to his pocket.
 
Thanks Tom.

Yeah, they oughta rename Nassau as "Eastern Queens". Just ridiculous. All the knives I mentioned have blades less than 3 inches, no spring assist, no crazy "tactical" designs. Just simple folders that are barely big enough for utility use. In fact, the Al Mar is listed as a "gentlemen's knife" in the catalog.

How did we lose so much in the way of personal liberty? How can we recover these rights we've lost, or at the least how can we prevent further erosion of our rights? These are the questions that need asking and answering by politicians.
 
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