Is this a knife?

R

R. Ellis

Joined
Sep 29, 2005
Messages
447
Would a dulled out ballisong used as a trainer be legally considered a knife? The reason I ask is that my son took his trainer to his friends house to teach his buddies and show them how to flip it. His friends dad, who is a cop, flipped out and told my son he was carring an illegal weapon and to take it home immediatly. I was a liitle puzzled as I consider it little more than a yoyo. I was just wondering if I am wrong here? If so , I would like to know. He has a keen interest in flipping and I don't want to discourage him or give him wrong advice. Should I spring for a real trainer? Would that be legal to carry in public? This one has no point or edge what so ever. Thanks for any suggestions or opinions. We live in Ohio.
bali_trainer.jpg
 
I don''t believe that should be considered a weapon, no more than a redgun would be. That being said, in Tennessee if you robbed someone with it it would be armed robbery because the victim thought it was real.
 
It is a balisong knife and was manufactured as such. That being said it will probably get you or your son into trouble. A purpose built trainer is better but still not foolproof from a legal point of view. That being said, I think a little discretion goes a long way here. My 9 y/o shoots on a regular basis, and trains with martial arts weapons at the dojo. That being said, they don't EVER go to a friend's house. It may be worth a call to the other kid's dad, try to smooth things over. Your call.

We all know that many knife laws don't make sense. Public opinion often makes even less sense. Tact and discretion rules the day.
 
Just remember that cop could have been stabbed with one of those knives. You might want to think about it from the other side once in awhile.
 
When I have questions like this, I like to call the local PD to ask them what they think. In this situation, their opinions are far more valuable than ours.
 
Many people use knives that are just that dull. You can't dull a knife down to a magical point where it ceases to be a knife in the eyes of the law. Think how bad it would be if only knife nuts could be convicted of carrying a knife since everybody else's knives were too dull. A friend of mine was on a jury to judge a prisoner who was caught with an SAK with the knife blade completely broken off. He actually wasn't caught with it, he turned it in. The case actually went to trial for a "knife" with no knife blade. He did get off, largely because he turned the SAK in.

I sent my son to the local Renaissance Faire with a left hand dagger in his belt. This knife had never been sharpened and the "edge" was a sixteenth of an inch flat surface. I took a belt sander and rounded off the tip a bit more extremely than your trainer. This thing was so dull and blunt that he didn't even need a sheath for it. They made him buy a sheath and secure it in that sheath with a zip tie.

Even a plastic blade might be considered a knife. You kind of need something with a distinctly different function to not be a "blade". They used to make switchblades with combs as the blades. That would probably get around the law. Another way would be to replace the blade with a piece of steel bar stock with a rectangular cross-section and full-width square end. Basically just a sawed-off piece of bar stock.
 
Balisongs are illegal in Canada

I had 3 of those OPENED at the customs. No problem at all.

This is a weapon modified to become a TOY.

If this is illegal, then they should ban boomerangs too
 
cybrok said:
Balisongs are illegal in Canada

I had 3 of those OPENED at the customs. No problem at all.

This is a weapon modified to become a TOY.

If this is illegal, then they should ban boomerangs too
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lol May i ask why boomerangs? lol:confused:
 
it's metal, and it looks like a real butterfly knife. the question "is this a knife?" could ultimitly be answered by the DA, or worse yet, an unformed jury. get him a real trainer, and only let him flip it at home. better safe than sorry.
 
RedEdge77 said:
lol May i ask why boomerangs? lol:confused:
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Boomerang were (and still are) used by arboriginal people to hunt and fight.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boomerang

In the west, people only use them as toys.

So where is the difference between a bali trainer and a boomerang?

ranger88 said:
it's metal, and it looks like a real butterfly knife. the question "is this a knife?" could ultimitly be answered by the DA, or worse yet, an unformed jury. get him a real trainer, and only let him flip it at home. better safe than sorry.
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Except for the BM-40, trainers are really cheap, I got a few Ronin trainers and they broke in my hands. If you are not ready to pay 100$ for a trainer, a dulled one is the solution. Just make it as dull as a butter knife... or even more.
 
Buy him a trainer.

No way it can be misidentified as a weapon. If money is an issue, get a bottlefly instead.

I've seen knives on the street, carried as "weapons", in worse shape than your son's dulled & blunted balisong.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Come to think of it, a Yoyo was first designed as a weapon. The boy,(8) learned his lesson. He knows not to take real knives down without supervision. He had asked my several times,"Is this SAFE now". I repied, "yes". My fault for not keeping one step ahead of him. Like Ranger said, "better safe than sorry". It will stay in the house from now on. Thanks again.
 
Bernard Levine has links on his website to the knife laws of each state. Using those links I looked up the statute excerpts for Tennessee. (According to the link they were updated in 2006.) The weapons laws in Tennessee say in part, “ ‘Knife’ means any bladed hand instrument that is capable of inflicting serious bodily injury or death by cutting or stabbing a person with the instrument;” They then go on to define the types of knives that are illegal. Tennessee statutes -excerpted

Since your “trainer” appears to have neither a point nor an edge, it would not fit the State’s definition of a knife. Therefore, it would appear that your son can legally possess and carry that object that was formerly a knife.
 
Eric Ghanson said:
Just remember that cop could have been stabbed with one of those knives. You might want to think about it from the other side once in awhile.
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While it is easy to review the knife here; the thing does look very much like a real knife from across the room. A cop encountering such a thing would probably be justified to use lethal force.

n2s
 
not2sharp said:
While it is easy to review the knife here; the thing does look very much like a real knife from across the room. A cop encountering such a thing would probably be justified to use lethal force.

n2s
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That is very much true. It looks enough like a knife unless closely inspected. I know that I would probably shoot someone that pulled it on me.
 
But who's the real freak? The one who kills with a knife or the one who kills with a trainer?
 
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